What happens when a religious leader goes haywire?

ShailRaghuvansh · Mar 5, 2010

corallux said: ↑

Dear Shail,

It is not just Hinduism that has these Pakhandis. Christianity does too. Just look at all the sexual harrasment cases againt the clergy of the Roman Catholic Church.

Mao once said of religion," It is the opium of the masses." Religion is used to coerce people into doing things the priviliged few want.

Look at the lifestyle these days, stress, seperations etc. People ahve lost confidence in themselves. Hence when a person comes along telling us what we want to hear, naturally we tend to follow that person blindly.

Not all Swamis are fake, look at the Swamijis of Sringeri, Kanchi, Or even our own Shrdi Baba. They worked for the upliftment of the society.

These Chor Sadhus give India & Indians a bad name.

Regards,

Corallux
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Dear Corallux,

Thanks for dropping by and sharing your views. Yes, this virus is there in all religions. And only because people have goofed up on their respective ideas of faith, spirituality and devotion. Like you very rightly mentioned :iagree the lifestyles of people is to blame in a great way. More and more people are only running after gaining material wealth, not spiritual enlightenment. We don't realize that if only our spiritual/religious foundations were strong enough we would not have to flock to people like these fake swamis. :bowdown

The problem lies in the values that we learn, carry over and spread around us. Even if our values were right (and that means not much of ritual, etc) we would be wise enough to stay away from people who deem it their right to preach half baked knowledge for their selfish gain.

Yes, it is a fact (and this I have mentioned in other comments too) that enlightened souls do exist in all religions, doing good for society on the whole without resorting to brain washing. But then, it is also a harsh reality that the other extreme side also exists where people blindly give their minds, bodies and souls to people who don't deserve the status of a guru also. shakehead

Sad but true. When shall we the public ever learn?

See you soon.:wave

Shail

knot2share · Mar 5, 2010

Dear Shail

Just peeped in here to post a quick reply saying that this thread that you have started is fabulous. I am enjoying reading all the responses and of course share the views with many here. It is a healthy discussion indeed.

It is disgusting indeed to see how people get away with anything in the name of religion. Like Mindi and Corallux have said, of course there are these real spiritual leaders who guide us but probably they are doing what they do in the way it is meant to be done (just as you said). I don't think if somebody says A + B = C, we just blindly follow it. You are right, we have been given a brain to work it out ourselves and find out why exactly A+B=C. Whether one wants to believe in GOD or not, I feel just doing the right thing with a sincere heart is equivalent to GODliness anyway. I possibly agree slightly with another member here who mentions that spirituality and sex was possibly linked. Both are needed. What I don't agree is using sex as a favour which is a big NO NO. It could be between two consenting adults in the end, but the motive behind the initiator is improper. In such instances I too wonder what happens to the brain of common people. Why do they allow such things to happen? So really we are the reason for such colourful leaders to emerge everywhere. We always look for short cuts in life and anybody who promises just that becomes our hero, no matter at what cost it gets delivered...........

I loved Epandian's fb too! Actually no I am wrong here, every fb is good. I will surely follow this thread. Thank you Shail and congratulations on the nomination.

ShailRaghuvansh · Mar 5, 2010

epandian said: ↑

I had posted this comment to varalotti sir's blog. But reposting it here since this thread speaks specifically about this episode.

We the people are solely to be blamed. Sadly this happens around the world and in every religion.

Spiritual laziness of people gives power to these wolves in sheep’s clothing. When I am not willing to hand over my bank locker key / house key / a signed blank check to a complete stranger, how can I trust someone with my soul and eternity?

Is my soul so cheap that I am not willing to develop a personal relationship with my Creator and do my own homework? Spiritual growth is a personal thing. How can people outsource this to a fake mediator? (for whom Godliness is a means to financial gain).

A legalistic adherence to any religion can result in such hypocrisy. Legalists preach tough rules that go like “….Don’t do this….. Don’t do that…..don’t….” but they won’t lift a finger to reduce the load on people.

“Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.”

It achieves outward performance instead of an inward change (God’s requirement).

Legalists hurt others and God’s name is blasphemed because of them. “It is better to marry than to burn with lust” says the bible. Disobedience to God’s word always has sad consequences. We all know that hundreds of children suffered in silence for years when they were raped and that too in church because celibacy was a mandatory requirement to become a priest when it has been left purely as a matter of personal choice in the bible.

Every human being has secret sins. The world is more merciful to the common man. But the weight of legalistic expectation from peers and society prevents spiritual leaders from publically accepting that they yielded to temptation, fell down, repented, and tasted God’s sweet grace and mercy.

A public declaration of my failure and God’s faithfulness would impress and give more hope to people more than any possible sermon that I can preach. But then when I accept my failure, the money will stop.

I should worship God not because “I have to” but because “I want to”. That is freedom. Religion will bind us and relationship will free us.

Yes..Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. But fear without a relationship will make me run away from God and fall at the feet of some pastor or priest or rabbi instead of boldly approaching the “throne of Grace”.

Well I do not expect him to be a servant leader and wash his disciple’s feet. But the way he watches TV when his devotee is massaging his legs….simply disgusting. No respect for her as a human being.

I agree, the scenes shown by Suntv was a bit too much to be seen along with children. But sometimes an abscess has to be incised and the foul smelling pus has to be drained to prevent further rotting. Probably Suntv does not have such noble intentions.

But I hope people will learn and run to the “mercy seat of God” before they die instead of facing the “judgment seat” later.

We will face one “seat of God” for sure.

God has left that choice to us.
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Hello Epandian,

You have expressed your point very clearly and rightly.
"Spiritual Laziness' :exactly: that's what we all are currently suffering from and therein lies the root of all our problems.
Spiritual growth is a personal thing. How can people outsource this to a fake mediator?
So very true and apt as it reflects our present state of minds. Outsourcing has become the law of the day, everything needs to be outsourced and as you pointed out, even our souls and our faith is being outsourced. But people fail to realize that this outsourcing cannot bring us permanent relief. When we can't trust ourselves to connect to God, pray tell me, with due respect to all, what kind of values have we inherited from our ancestors? The public today is really a confused lot:confused2: not knowing which path to take.

Yes, God has given us the freedom of choice generously and we go around abusing this right. tskshakehead

Thanks for sharing your reflections. If only the brain washed public thought so!

See you soon.:wave

Shail

ShailRaghuvansh · Mar 5, 2010

Laxkasbekar said: ↑

Shail,

People have a wrong notion that spirituality and sex are exclusive. It is not so. Since ancient times sex and spirutuality were interconnected. Look at the birth of Shakuntala or Karna or even all the Pandavas, who were born either of unwed mothers or were fathered by other men not married to the mother. Indian society did not condemn sex. We have picked up this attitude from Muslims and Xians.

Now coming to this godman or even ND Tiwari or for that matter Tiger Woods. Who puts them up on pedestal? Who makes them the heros? We, right. So we are to be blamed for the issue.

Whether Tiger or Tiwari or this fellow did no wrong. It was sex between two consenting adults. It is a crime if it is rape, molestation or abuse. Thid is not the case here.

So basically Shail this is a non-issue.
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Hi Laxmi,

If only this was a non-issue! It is not about sex not being there in spirituality. It is not about two consenting adults having sex.

It is about a spiritual/religious head, influential at that, stating every now and then to the public that he is a brahmachaari, that his interests are entirely spiritual and then having sex (with or without consent) on the other side.

The issue is about a person who deems it right to have a sexual relationship with a devotee/inmate instead of his wife (can't have a wife anyway since he is a brahmachaari you see!).

So, what message is he preaching to the masses?
It is okay to have affairs in an ashram married or not.
It is okay to practise something and believe in something else.
What the heck? I am a Swami. I can do anything.

I did mention in my post that we the public have to blame because we don't make use of the power of reasoning that God has given us.
We are to be blamed because we allow others to brain wash us.

There you are right. Otherwise, it definitely is an ISSUE.

See you.

Shail

ShailRaghuvansh · Mar 5, 2010

knot2share said: ↑

Dear Shail

Just peeped in here to post a quick reply saying that this thread that you have started is fabulous. I am enjoying reading all the responses and of course share the views with many here. It is a healthy discussion indeed.

It is disgusting indeed to see how people get away with anything in the name of religion. Like Mindi and Corallux have said, of course there are these real spiritual leaders who guide us but probably they are doing what they do in the way it is meant to be done (just as you said). I don't think if somebody says A + B = C, we just blindly follow it. You are right, we have been given a brain to work it out ourselves and find out why exactly A+B=C. Whether one wants to believe in GOD or not, I feel just doing the right thing with a sincere heart is equivalent to GODliness anyway. I possibly agree slightly with another member here who mentions that spirituality and sex was possibly linked. Both are needed. What I don't agree is using sex as a favour which is a big NO NO. It could be between two consenting adults in the end, but the motive behind the initiator is improper. In such instances I too wonder what happens to the brain of common people. Why do they allow such things to happen? So really we are the reason for such colourful leaders to emerge everywhere. We always look for short cuts in life and anybody who promises just that becomes our hero, no matter at what cost it gets delivered...........

I loved Epandian's fb too! Actually no I am wrong here, every fb is good. I will surely follow this thread. Thank you Shail and congratulations on the nomination.
Click to expand...

Dear know2share,

Nice of you to drop in. An ordinary mortal cannot suddenly do away with sex in his/her life. It is a natural urge. In fact, many siddhars, swamis and sages went through their spiritual lives as householders so that they experienced all the moh maya needed in life. This was to later prevent a suppressed desire for sex or lust itself.

What is disgusting as you said is the way we permit ourselves to be ruled in mind, body and spirit (even in this age of democracy and independence apart from technological development) by people who proclaim to be spiritual gurus.:bowdown
Very few persons are fortunate enough to get real genuine gurus in life who are really bothered about the spiritual upliftment of the people.
Most of the fake swamis are here only to make money, get fame and some to satiate their carnal desires by hook or by crook. They are basically here to partyarty while the brain washed public believes that they have got the grace of the Almighty in their lives.

Thanks for appreciation for the post and for the nomination of the post.

See you soon.:wave

Shail

ShailRaghuvansh · Mar 5, 2010

ShailRaghuvansh said: ↑

Dear know2share,

Nice of you to drop in. An ordinary mortal cannot suddenly do away with sex in his/her life. It is a natural urge. In fact, many siddhars, swamis and sages went through their spiritual lives as householders so that they experienced all the moh maya needed in life. This was to later prevent a suppressed desire for sex or lust itself.

What is disgusting as you said is the way we permit ourselves to be ruled in mind, body and spirit (even in this age of democracy and independence apart from technological development) by people who proclaim to be spiritual gurus.:bowdown
Very few persons are fortunate enough to get real genuine gurus in life who are really bothered about the spiritual upliftment of the people.
Most of the fake swamis are here only to make money, get fame and some to satiate their carnal desires by hook or by crook. They are basically here to partyarty while the brain washed public believes that they have got the grace of the Almighty in their lives.

Thanks for appreciation for the post and for the nomination of the post.

See you soon.:wave

Shail
Click to expand...

Sorry, that was knot2share.

Shail

knot2share · Mar 6, 2010

Dear Shail

Just a quick info for you in case you did not know.

When you post something and find out later that there is some error (like the one before where it became know2share instead of knot2share ), all you need to do is EDIT the same post. You are allowed to EDIT the post by clicking on the EDIT button that sits next to the QUOTE button, that you find on the botton right hand side, below your post. But please remember that you will have this option available to you only for 24hours from the time of posting, after which further amendments are not allowed.

Padmini · Mar 6, 2010

Dear Shail,
A thought provoking and much needed post. My friends have stepped in and shared their valuable thoughts. I also want to echo their opinions in my way.
Daily we get to hear about such fake swamis and their notorious activities – which include rape, illicit relationships, amassing wealth through dishonorable means – but this has not deterred many from approaching fraudsters in the guise of Swami. Why?

Both the fake Godmen, his followers and those who go after such swamis are fortune seekers. Godmen is using religion to become rich and conduct other antisocial activities. Followers are fortune seekers who want the help of an outside agency to reach God and bribe God and amass wealth, cure diseases, solve social problems and above all know the future.But the fake swamis and godmen only talk about future, money and predictions, pujas and innumerable homams to cure diseases where medical science has failed. Sadly, this is what many want to hear.Women being weaker sex easily become the victims.
Shri Krishna never fought for Arjuna in the Mahabharata. Arjuna had to do all the fighting in Kurukshetra. Krishna is always there to remind us the Truth and give sane advice. The ultimate truth is that we have to do our work and no God will come to do it. Sadly this is not acceptable to many.
Such fake swamis and God men should not find protection in religion.
with love
pad

ShailRaghuvansh · Mar 6, 2010

Dear K2S( or is Jayashree?),

Thanks for letting me know. Will use it (successfully I hope!) the next time I need it.

Have a great weekend.

See you soon:wave
Shail

Cheeniya · Mar 6, 2010

My dear Shail

Right from the Vedic days, the deployment of women to wean off the great Rishis of yore who were on awesome Spiritual Pursuit or Tapas was a generally accepted and practiced strategy. Indra who had a bevy of celestial dancers in his court never felt shy of using this strategy to spoil the Tapas of Rishis in his apprehension that if they succeeded in their Tapas, they would make his own position very shaky! He did that to the Great Sage Vishwamitra using Menaka who was perhaps more seductive than the rest! He used Menaka again to frustrate Vibhandaka who begot the great Rishyasringa through Menaka. When he came to know that he had been taken for a ride by Indra through Menaka, Vibhandaka brought up his son as an austere celibate away from all women. But even Rishyasringa was seduced with an army of girls by the King of Anga in order to bring him from the forest to his Kingdom which was being ravaged by a great famine. Only the coming of Rishyasringa could bring rains to the Kingdom!

This story thus goes on from the Dawn of Time to date! I am not trying to compare or justify the modern god men in their amorous pursuits with Vishwamitra or Vibhandaka. I am only trying to look at the question that you have raised: What is it that makes religious heads to go overboard when it comes to the issue of sex and women?

I am also trying to understand why a Sanyasi after years of toil in mastering the Scriptures in an apparent attempt to lead his disciples from ‘Darkness unto Light’ should eternally plunge himself in darkness without any hope of redemption while engaged in a hot pursuit of unworthy women? This statement of yours makes an interesting reading: “After all, when they have been elevated to the status of spiritual/religious guru, they are surely expected to follow the laws of society themselves!” Who elevated them to the status of a Spirual Guru? The people of course. And how many go to these Gurus for Spiritual Enlightenment? Hardly any. Most of them go to these god men begging for release from disease, from poverty, from enemies. The list is endless. When the Gurus promise a remedy and demand a price for it, people are only too happy to oblige and that price may include women.

We must understand that God never acts through middlemen. He brooks no broking! These god men either act as His brokers or assume His powers posing as His favorite children. They are adept in choosing highly vulnerable people as their disciples and workers. These followers are easily impressed with some cheap magic of the kind that Saidapet James performs in Kiddy parties. People are prepared to pledge their wealth, their families and their honour to keep their Gurus happy and contented! In the ultimate analysis, we are responsible for the mushroom growth of these god men. We give everything to them willingly and when they get exposed, our frustration takes over and we start stoning them!

Shail, you have raised a poignant question:
“When self respect is gone, what else is left even if your main 'problem' has been treated? It is like one disease taking the place of another and this one being more threatening and dangerous to not just the body but also to the spirit and the soul.”

I don’t think I need to say more!
Sri