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Veda And Science

Discussion in 'Snippets of Life (Non-Fiction)' started by Viswamitra, Feb 24, 2024.

  1. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    I was intensely listening to a discourse given by my Guru comparing Vedic wisdom with scientific knowledge. Is there a real difference between them? Here is an excerpt of what was in the discourse:

    “The Vedic Wisdom states that Mantra is mightier than machinery. For example, Pranava is nothing but the principle of Sakthi & Shiva. These principles known as Sakthi and Shiva are called by the scientists as electron and proton. Protons are the center of every atom. However, electrons revolve at a high speed around the proton. Veda explains it in separate ways.

    It is explained clearly in Vedas that the Shiva and Shakti are part of the same entity as explained in science that electron and proton are part of the atom. One cannot exist without the other. For electrons, protons are the Atman. Neutrons were there even before electrons and protons. Veda calls it as Sat. What is Sat? There is a general belief Sat is effulgence, but it is not. It is darkness. The light comes out of darkness Veda explains that out of Ashanti or restlessness comes out the light (Prashanti), and out of Prashanti comes supreme effulgence which is divinity. That is called in Sanskrit as Taha & Maha combined as Tamaha. There are two meanings to Taha, and they are Amrita or Nectar, and the other is the womb. Scientists call this womb space. The second word Maha conveys two meanings a well and they are poison and time. So Tamaha represents the space and time continuum. The life of human beings reflects these two.

    How do you find human beings appearing on Earth? First is the womb which is nothing but space. It shapes into a bubble on the 7th day. On the 15th day, it will be embryo. On the 30th day, it shapes into a hard substance. On the 60th day, the head emerges. Life enters on 210th day. The full human form is created on 240th day and delivered on 270th day. Vedas proved that for the human birth, space and time are important. Humans are not making any attempts to know these secrets of life. Humans are wasting all that time, body, and efforts in physical, world matters that are temporary and ephemeral. So, Veda and Science appear to be different, but they are not so. Veda could find out that which is not discovered by scientists. Science has not yet recognized all that is known by the Veda. Scientists truly know little. We should investigate the power of Divinity present in humans.”

    Here are my observations about this discourse. Isn’t it true that energy exists in every atom whatever name it is called? Isn’t it true that we find out from our own experience that time and space play a key role in human life? Isn’t it true before the big bang happened, only blackhole existed and the big bang happened out of the black hole? Isavasya Unpanishad states that out of Brahman emerged a golden egg called Hiranyagarbha and from the Hiranyagarbha, Manasa-putras (mental sons) called Marichi, Angiras, Atri, Pulastya, Pulaha, Kratu, Vashista, Daksha, Bhrigu and Narada emerged.

    A few years ago, I read a book written by Rev. Berg titled, “Nano: Technology of Mind over Matter.” He talked about philosphically rich Kabbalah’s faith. He said when God created a vessel separate from Him, it will not separate because it is nothing but a reflection of God. Therefore, he created two other vessels, one that would receive His grace and give it back to others and one that would receive His grace and retain it. He merged all three vessels to create the Universe. This interpretation reminded me of three Gunas, Sattvic, Rajasic and Tamasic qualities.

    There is so much to learn from everything that happens around us including childbirth. A mother/child bond is another good example of how life is sustained because of love. Oxytocin (harmone of love) is generated in a mother’s body during labor and birth. Without time and space, there is no possibility of life. May be this is what was explained in the story of Asura and Deva helping Shiva to extract Amrit from the sea of milk and the poison coming out of the mouth of the snake that was used as a rope and Shiva consuming that poison. Human beings have both positive and negative qualities, and we may have to surrender our bad qualities to Shiva to enjoy Amrita of Bliss. We need to explore the light that helps us come out of our ignorance to realize our true form Sat-Chit-Ananda.
     
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  2. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    The Garbhagriha is not constructed on the ground. It is built over another chamber which has enough sand packed into it. This chamber has four pillars that hold up the floor of the Garbhagriha over them. The floor hosts the main idol as well as its elements that constitute the idols "power". Once the Idol has been brought to "life" the temple is proclaimed a living temple and the main idol is put over to cover the secret within. Subsequently the idol is "appeared" to be worshipped while the actual worship is done for the idol as well as the elements below. The idol is a visual representation of a reality contained in the elements, today unknown to all of us, well almost unknown.

    There will be no windows to the Garpagraha to retain all the energy the deity has. The Gopuram or Vimanam also absorbs the space energy and channelizes directly into the deity. The human beings when they visit the temple and stand in front of the main deity, they get this energy. That is another reason why in some temples, men are asked to come near the Garpagraha without a shirt so that they can absorb this energy.
     
  3. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    This thread I started in 2019 came to my mind when I wrote this thread.

    Spiritual Molecule
     
  4. jayasala42

    jayasala42 IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Viswa,

    Your snippet on Veda and science was very much thought provoking.I read it many

    times but could not grasp many things.It is more than 60 years I completed my studies.

    "It is explained clearly in Vedas that the Shiva and Shakti are part of the same entity as explained in science that electron and proton are part of the atom. One cannot exist without the other. For electrons, protons are the Atman. Neutrons were there even before electrons and protons. Veda calls it as Sat. What is Sat? There is a general belief Sat is effulgence, but it is not. It is darkness. The light comes out of darkness Veda explains that out of Ashanti or restlessness comes out the light (Prashanti), and out of Prashanti comes supreme effulgence which is divinity. That is called in Sanskrit as Taha & Maha combined as Tamaha. There are two meanings to Taha, and they are Amrita or Nectar, and the other is the womb. Scientists call this womb space. The second word Maha conveys two meanings a well and they are poison and time. So Tamaha represents the space and time continuum. The life of human beings reflects these two."

    I want to draw your attention to the above para in which it has been stated that light comes out of darkness.oN reading the above I was reminded of a conversation that took place between a preofessor and the students.

    An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.


    Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct? Student: Yes.

    Prof: So who created evil? Student does not answer.

    Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they? Student: Yes, sir.

    Prof: So, who created them? Student has no answer.

    Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God? Student: No, sir.

    Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God? Student: No, sir.

    Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter? Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

    Prof: Yet you still believe in Him? Student: Yes.

    Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

    Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

    Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Prof: Yes.

    Student: And is there such a thing as cold? Prof: Yes.

    Student: No sir. There isn't. (The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

    Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)


    Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
    Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?


    Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

    Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
    Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

    Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how? Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.

    To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

    Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

    Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

    Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class is in uproar.)

    Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? (The class breaks out into laughter.)

    Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

    (The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)

    Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

    Student: That is it sir... The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.

    This is a true story, and the student was none other than.........Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, the great scientist and the former president of India
    .


    Viswa,I have the same doubts as that of the student.

    I think that what your GURU says about darkness is not what we think as darkness.


    Can you please clarify?

    • Jayasala 42
     
  5. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    Dear Smt Jayasala Madam:

    I am not a philosopher or a Scientist to have deep knowledge to know whether light came from darkness or vice-versa nor I claim one. I am relying on the teachings of the philosophers, Gurus, the prophets, and some scientific publications.

    Bible Teaching:

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."

    Quoran Teaching:

    Praise be to Allah, Who hath created the heavens and the earth, and hath appointed darkness and light. Yet those who disbelieve ascribe rivals unto their Lord.

    Torah Teaching:

    This darkness is the foundation for the great light that will follow. This is the secret of the Hebrew word for "And He separated" (Gen. 1.4), hinting to how God extracted the pure light from within the darkness. Consequently, this is the formula of our reality that we are able and must constantly extract good from within the negative. Secondly, we see that our continued exile, the trials we have been forced to face throughout the generations in fact cleanse us, saving us from much more difficult punishments. Difficulties push us to return to proper Jewish living because we are forced to examine our own lives.

    Brahadarnyaka Upanishad Teaching:

    "asato mā sadgamaya,
    tamaso mā jyotirgamaya,
    mṛtyormā'mṛtaṃ gamaya."

    Meaning,
    "From the unreal lead me to the real!
    From the darkness lead me to the light!
    From death lead me to immortality!"

    Teaching in science:

    Scientists today accept the existence of photons and their weird wave-particle behavior. What they still debate is the more existential side of things, such as where light came from in the first place. To answer this question, physicists turn their attention to the big bang and the few moments that followed.

    You might recall that the big bang is the birthing event that gave rise to the universe. You can read more in How the Big Bang Theory works, but it will be useful to remind you of the basics here. About 15 billion years ago, all matter and energy were bottled up in a small region known as a singularity. In an instant, this single point of super-dense material began to expand at an incredibly rapid rate. As the newborn universe expanded, it began to cool down and become less dense. This allowed more stable particles and photons to form.

    Here's what may have happened:

    1. Immediately after the big bang, electromagnetism didn't exist as an independent force. Instead, it was joined to the weak nuclear force.
    2. Particles known as B and W bosons also existed at this time.
    3. When the universe was just 0.00000000001 seconds old, it had cooled enough for electromagnetism to break from the weak nuclear force and for the B and W bosons to combine into photons. The photons mingled freely with quarks, the smallest building blocks of matter.
    4. When the universe was 0.00001 seconds old, quarks combined to form protons and neutrons.
    5. When the universe was 0.01 seconds old, protons and neutrons began to organize into atoms.
    6. Finally, when the universe was the tender age of 380,000 years old, photons broke free, and light streamed across the dark chasms of space.
    This light eventually dimmed and reddened until, finally, the nuclear furnaces in stars kicked on and began generating new light. Our sun turned on about 4.6 billion years ago, showering the solar system with photons. Those photons have been streaming to our humble blue planet ever since. A few fell on the eyes of great thinkers -- Newton, Huygens, Einstein -- and caused them to stop, to think and to imagine.

    I really don't know what else to say in response to your question. My knowledge is limited and it is only assimilated knowledge from various sources and I don't have enough wisdom to give my own opinion or conclusion.
     
  6. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    There are more new discoveries made about galaxies with new understanding of how the universe came into existence. Science is advancing much faster making some of the old scientific theories redundant.
     
  7. jayasala42

    jayasala42 IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Viswa,
    My ignorant or innocent response has created another beautiful snippet from you.
    Sorry if I have hurt you with my questions arising out of my 'nil' knowledge.
    You have quoted extensively from upanishads and scriptures of other religions too.
    Dr.Abdul Kalaam was also a space scientist of our times and his words cannot be disregarded.
    I also spent sometime in consulting GOOGLE GURU.
    I am neither a scientist nor a philosopher,yet can't resist the questioning mind ,
    which was the reason for my response.
    Two years back I was asked to write a foreword to a book called SANATHANA SUDHA by a coimbatore scientist.The book was a treatise on vedas,puraanas ithihaasas and upanishads.My doubts arose more conspicuously on reading the book many a time.
    I dont deny that
    if we can see the Colour of Black Objects, it's certainly possible to experience the COLOUR OF DARKNESS, that equally represents the Same Scenic Beauty of No Colour.

    There is Nothing called Darkness. It's an environment where the intensity of Faint Light is not visible by Limited Human Perceptibilies. And we have therefore termed such places filled with Darkness.

    In fact, No Space in the Universe is Absolutely Dark and Bereft of Light. Only difference is that our Sense Organs are unable to make a clear Distinction between the Brightest and the Faintest Places.

    How could something be “good” unless we have an opposite to compare it with?
    It cannot just inherently be.


    This is a very common and basic principle in life; that we require an equilibrium or balance in everything. Good and evil in life must be balanced with the knowing of what they are and their intended uses.

    We cannot allow ourselves to be blinded by just one, and we must remember the opposite is always within reach for our own stabilization.

    If you are too high, know you must come down.
    And if you are too low, know you can only go up.


    If our lives were filled with absolutely nothing but bliss and joy… would we enjoy that?
    Would we even be able to comprehend a notion of enjoyment if we had nothing unpleasant or wanted in our lives?


    I have come to a conclusion that we can enjoy both light and darkness

    without analysing whether light was created from darkness

    JAYASALA 42
     
  8. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    Dear Smt. Jayasala:

    No need for an apology as I never felt hurt. I definitely can't match the depth of knowledge you have and hence I had quoted a few from various religions and the latest scientific knowledge published.

    Who can dispute Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam is the most innovative scientist in India responsible for spearheading the missle technologies in India besides contributing to India's space program as the Project Director initially? I had the privilege of meeting him once in the US when he visited our city. Most importantly, I admire him for being a great human being and a role model for many. I have closely interacted with Dr. Paulraj who directly worked for Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam in Defense Research Development Organization (DRDO) and learned a lot about him. I have also read his books "Wings of Fire" and "Vision 2020". His raise from a young boy in Rameswaram to the President of India is phenomenal.

    Neil deGrasse Tyson's video explains how little we knew about how the universe came into existence and he explains what existed before the big bang. When we see from the human point of view, we don't exist without the Sun and he talks about the period before big bang and how even after big bang, matter and energy existed without light but took many billion years to coalesce before it started shining. Our own Sun formed only 4.6 billion years ago when the formation of the universe is believed to be over 13 + billion years back. No scientist is able to pinpoint the starting period of the universe and every assumption made are negated later. Now, they are thinking to fix a point as a starting point and if the origin go back beyond that period, they will consider as negative years.

    When this discoveries are being made by the scientists reversing many assumptions of the scientists in the past, I wonder how the knowledge in Vedas and other holy books are consistant and reliable. I find that difficult to ignore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2024
  9. jayasala42

    jayasala42 IL Hall of Fame

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    Thank you Viswa,

    Jayasala 42
     
  10. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan Finest Post Winner

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    Two great intellectual giants deliberate on science and vedas and others have quietly enjoyed reading and are not considering that it is their domain or realm to discuss.

    I am in awe of knowledge displayed by two senior members of IL'ites and their
    desideratum . One concludes that scientists to investigate the divinity in humans and other says we must enjoy light and darkness and must be able to live without analysing whether light comes from darkness.

    The universe and our known worlds are continuously evolving and this includes the so called seventh heaven or vaikundam. Our one year is said to be equal to just one day for the celestial meaning their world too revolve around its axis and orbit the sun more slowly.

    In yajur veda upakarma there is mention of 14 lokas
    upload_2024-3-2_23-6-46.jpeg
    Vaikund is at the top and naraga logue or pathala loga at the bottom. All these lokas filled with souls in some form of bodies.

    Vedic wisdom and scientific knowledge any difference?

    There is no comparison only Infinite contrast.
    Science has unravelled the "how" of things that is only a tiny fraction of vedic wisdom which is reported far far superior.

    We humans reported to use only a fraction of our brain capacity. With this fact it may take billions of years for humans to evolve to use full capacity of their brains when it may be possible to investigate the divinity within humans and other species and inert objects. But at the back of my mind the question is "why to waste our precious little intelligence and time on this investigation especially when human life time on this planet is limited.

    Earth rotates causing day shedding the light and night causing darkness and do we know what rotates the earth about it's own axis while moon is not? Hedren Collision and Boson particle or God particle - the science had declared. With that God investigation halted.

    One can speak till eternity about miracles of universe but never can answer "Why" of it. Similarly divinity in human the "how" of it may be explained differently but "why" of it can never be fathomed. Why it is kept hidden from human brains - no one can answer with assimilated scientific data till today tomorrow or there after. Yet I conclude my comments here with Amen
    GOD BLESS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2024
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