Unconditional. Really?

satchitananda · May 31, 2017

stayblessed said: ↑

So true. Beautiful snippet
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Thanks stayblessed.

Mistt · Jun 1, 2017

satchitananda said: ↑

- sukha dukha samay kritva (equanimity in joy or in sorrow). But why does one take Sanyasa? For renunciation. That in itself is a goal or if not, it is a means to an end - liberation, which I guess everyone seeks at some point or the other. Even the desire for liberation is a desire - kama for mukti.
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really I don't know the answer for your question that's why I said I have been getting knowledge from you and some other Ilites here. Thank you for sharing your views/thoughts with us.

satchitananda · Jun 1, 2017

Thanks Misst. I too am trying to process all the information that I've had the occasion to gather over the years. So far I have heard, accepted and got on with life. Now going through a phase when a lot of questions are arising.

Balajee · Jun 1, 2017

THINGS MOVE MORE SMOOTHLY WHEN SELF-INTEREST IS AT PLAY.a COMPANY LAVISHES ITS PERKS ON STAFFERS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM POACHING RIVALS. a SOCIETY WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT BOTHERED ABOUT THEIR OWN INTEREST WILL FALL INTO ANARCHY. BECAUSE PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IN THEIR INTEREST AND SAFETY TO LIVE AS AN ORDERLY SOCIETY.

girvani · Jun 1, 2017

Dearest Satchi
Beautiful snippet to start the day. It surely woke me up and my thoughts are racing to justify it is possible for a learnt , matured person to unconditionally love and give. However, it is complicated for me. My philosphy in day to day life is I will help as long as it doesn't affect my duty towards husband , kids and our life's. If it is financial help, surely then I need my husband's approval. In this way , I am being selfish by thinking my family first. But that is my capacity at the moment. Thank you for the lovely thought.
Vani

Agatha83 · Jun 1, 2017

Dear satchi,

After my marriage, throughput the years, I had to deal with a string of Servant maids who slogged for years for a paltry sum of money I paid. When I look back at it, I feel, more than my financial help it was an emotional connect which helped me in strengthening the fragile bonds. I had no personal motive or gain in all my dealings with all those people I have come in contact so far. So I do not know to which category I belong! It is a wonder how you people come out with such powerful writings which makes readers get out of their comfort zone and tackle some hard core questions - quite a challenge!
Agatha83

cha1 · Jun 1, 2017

Loved your writeup....
Being born as a human being it is almost near to impossible to help without expecting something in return..it might even be the non materialistic "feel good" factor as well...

shyamala1234 · Jun 1, 2017

satchitananda said: ↑

I heard a story today - the story of a man on the verge of death. He sits down to draw up a balance sheet of his life. He has done many bad things in his life. What about the good? Well, he did do some good, but always with an ulterior motive. It was never good for the sake of good - "nishkamyakarma".

That set me thinking. Do we ever do anything without a motive? It might be so subtle that it may be hidden even from our own selves. The reward may be material or spiritual, but there is a motive all the same.

Let us first look at some simple examples. My domestic help wants some money - let me qualify that. She wants a lot of money. She asks for an advance. She has not returned last year's advance yet. I give it to her, however unwillingly. There is even a fear (based on past experience with other employees) that she might quit the job without bothering to return it. Nevertheless, I give it to her. Clearly, there is a motive. I might fear that if I don't give it to her, she might find somewhere else to work. I might even give it to her telling myself that if she returns it, it is mine. If she doesn't, it never was. I might tell myself that God has mercifully placed me in a position where the loss of that amount might not cause me any perceivable loss. After a while, she decides to play up and keep taking days off on various pretexts, come late, go early ..... justified or unjustified. I feel like the proverbial Tirupathi customer who's head is literally in the hands of the barber. He cuts half my hair and goes on to the next customer. Customer number 1 has no option but to wait. I can't even chuck her out. She has a huge amount of my money. Besides, I start boiling at the fact that despite getting help from me, she does not feel any kind of need to reciprocate in kind. OK, this is probably the grossest example. Come down to basics, I am helping in the hope that she reciprocates. So, this kind of help is a quid pro quo. There might be times when I give an employee an advance knowing fully well what I can expect from them when I am in need. Is that a totally unconditional help? No. I hope that in return for a good turn, there will be someone else who will do me a good turn when I am in need.

Every time we help others, there is no doubt it benefits in some way. May not be a quid pro quo. Might not be any public recognition or any material benefit. We do it because we feel happy doing it. So ultimately it is for my happiness that I help someone.

Even parental love is the same. They give unconditional love to their children. In fact that is probably the only unconditional love if there is any such thing on earth. Despite that, the children's happiness gives the parents happiness. So ultimately there too there is the feeling of happiness and satisfaction that parents seek.

So there is always some ulterior motive - a quid pro quo, the desire for brownie points in the court upstairs or just simple happiness or personal satisfaction that is involved. Nothing wrong with that, but it just brings me back to the question, is 'nishkamyakarma' really possible?
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satchitananda said: ↑

I heard a story today - the story of a man on the verge of death. He sits down to draw up a balance sheet of his life. He has done many bad things in his life. What about the good? Well, he did do some good, but always with an ulterior motive. It was never good for the sake of good - "nishkamyakarma".

That set me thinking. Do we ever do anything without a motive? It might be so subtle that it may be hidden even from our own selves. The reward may be material or spiritual, but there is a motive all the same.

Let us first look at some simple examples. My domestic help wants some money - let me qualify that. She wants a lot of money. She asks for an advance. She has not returned last year's advance yet. I give it to her, however unwillingly. There is even a fear (based on past experience with other employees) that she might quit the job without bothering to return it. Nevertheless, I give it to her. Clearly, there is a motive. I might fear that if I don't give it to her, she might find somewhere else to work. I might even give it to her telling myself that if she returns it, it is mine. If she doesn't, it never was. I might tell myself that God has mercifully placed me in a position where the loss of that amount might not cause me any perceivable loss. After a while, she decides to play up and keep taking days off on various pretexts, come late, go early ..... justified or unjustified. I feel like the proverbial Tirupathi customer who's head is literally in the hands of the barber. He cuts half my hair and goes on to the next customer. Customer number 1 has no option but to wait. I can't even chuck her out. She has a huge amount of my money. Besides, I start boiling at the fact that despite getting help from me, she does not feel any kind of need to reciprocate in kind. OK, this is probably the grossest example. Come down to basics, I am helping in the hope that she reciprocates. So, this kind of help is a quid pro quo. There might be times when I give an employee an advance knowing fully well what I can expect from them when I am in need. Is that a totally unconditional help? No. I hope that in return for a good turn, there will be someone else who will do me a good turn when I am in need.

Every time we help others, there is no doubt it benefits in some way. May not be a quid pro quo. Might not be any public recognition or any material benefit. We do it because we feel happy doing it. So ultimately it is for my happiness that I help someone.

Even parental love is the same. They give unconditional love to their children. In fact that is probably the only unconditional love if there is any such thing on earth. Despite that, the children's happiness gives the parents happiness. So ultimately there too there is the feeling of happiness and satisfaction that parents seek.

So there is always some ulterior motive - a quid pro quo, the desire for brownie points in the court upstairs or just simple happiness or personal satisfaction that is involved. Nothing wrong with that, but it just brings me back to the question, is 'nishkamyakarma' really possible?
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Dear Saatchi,
Complete Nishkamakarma is not possible according to me. Of course parents' love is a different thing.
It is something like a mathematical formula. When we do something for others we do have expectations.....barter system. Even if it is a donation or not expecting anything in return , we do it for our own satisfaction or happiness. Even that is conditional.
It is o.k what we do is for conditional aim. Nothing wrong with it.
Syamala

satchitananda · Jun 1, 2017

Balajee said: ↑

THINGS MOVE MORE SMOOTHLY WHEN SELF-INTEREST IS AT PLAY.a COMPANY LAVISHES ITS PERKS ON STAFFERS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM POACHING RIVALS. a SOCIETY WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT BOTHERED ABOUT THEIR OWN INTEREST WILL FALL INTO ANARCHY. BECAUSE PEOPLE KNOW IT IS IN THEIR INTEREST AND SAFETY TO LIVE AS AN ORDERLY SOCIETY.
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That is precisely the problem. Too much of self-interest at heart to the extent that we don't bother to help an injured person get to a hospital. This is probably the kind of situation for which 'nishkamya karma' is advocated. However, my point is, even if one does the deed without ostensibly expecting any monetary return or public recognition, there is at least the minimum expectation of being acknowledged by someone upstairs or of feeling a happy, warm glow inside .

satchitananda · Jun 1, 2017

girvani said: ↑

Dearest Satchi
Beautiful snippet to start the day. It surely woke me up and my thoughts are racing to justify it is possible for a learnt , matured person to unconditionally love and give. However, it is complicated for me. My philosphy in day to day life is I will help as long as it doesn't affect my duty towards husband , kids and our life's. If it is financial help, surely then I need my husband's approval. In this way , I am being selfish by thinking my family first. But that is my capacity at the moment. Thank you for the lovely thought.
Vani
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Thanks so much Vani. We all think of our family first. Even that is because our family's well being affects our own physical, financial, mental and emotional well being. The majority of us have a long way to go before we really do a deed without any expections - I am even wondering what that means! Nothing wrong with protecting our own interests or feeling happy or satisfied when we do something just for the pleasure of seeing someone happy. Just that I wonder what 'nishkamya karma' means and whether it actually exists.