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There is no room for grief ! - Bhagavad Gita verses 2.23 & 2.24

Discussion in 'Chitvish on Hindu Culture & Vedanta' started by Chitvish, Jan 24, 2008.

  1. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    We have now realised that just as a man casts off worn-out clothes and puts on new ones, so also the embodied atma casts off worn-out bodies and enters others which are new.

    In 2.23 we read that all the four elements can affect the body but not the atma.

    Nainam chindanthi s(h)aasthraaNi nainam dahathi paavaka:
    Na chainam klaedayathyaapO na s(h)Oshayathi maarutha: 2.23

    Weapons (prithvi or earth) do not cut this. Fire does not burn this. Water does not wet this. Air also does not dry this.

    Only objects belonging to the same degree of reality can affect one another. But at the same , objects belonging to the same order of reality need not affect each other also.
    Space, for example belongs to the same order of reality as the other four elements but it is not affected or destroyed by any of them. Space has no form and hence cannot be destroyed even by other elements that share the same order of reality.
    So atma is self-evident and hence is self-existent, depending on nothing for existence
    Whereas, what is not self-evident is
    not self-existent
    and
    depends entirely upon that which is self-existent.

    A problem may arise that since a non-existent thing also cannot be destroyed by anyone, perhaps this atma is non-existent ! The next verse puts this doubt to rest.

    AchchaedyOyam adahyOyam aklaedyOs(h)Oshya aeva cha

    Nithya: sarvagatha: sthaaNu: achalO(a)yam sanaathana: 2.24

    The self cannot be cut, burnt, drowned or dried. It is changeless, all-pervading, unmoving and eternal.

    Weapons cannot cut this Self. It is eternal.
    Because It is eternal, It is all-pervading.
    Because It is all-pervading, It is stable like a pillar.
    Because It is stable, It is immovable, It is everlasting.
    As such, It is not produced out of any cause.
    It is not new. It is ancient.

    Knowing the atma in this way, there is no reason for us to entertain any grief. But we may say “ I don’t cry for atma. I cry for anatma”. To this Krishna would ask, Why would you cry for the anithya anatma? Anatma is always changing and we have no control over it. Only atma is nithya and there is no way of destroying it”.
    “ For what do you then grieve, Arjuna?” Krishna asked. “There is no room for grief at all. There is something to be done. Do it.”
    This constant refrain is sounded in the next verse also.

    Love,
    Chithra.

     
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  2. Anandchitra

    Anandchitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    Dear Chithra
    What a great topic.It carries so much weight. And applies to todays world and life. But really how can I ever say its easy. I think this is the most hardest of all things to implement. Like always will have to read a few more times and will be back. Thanks so much for writing.
     
  3. Ria2006

    Ria2006 Silver IL'ite

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    Wow beautifully said Maam!
    I have read purans and Upnishads, And they say the same.
    Are these verses from BhagwadGeeta?

    It feels strange sometimes , That we live in this world as if everything belongs to us. And the fact of the matter is , we spend most of our lives without even knowing third governing faculty in us. We get so consumed dealing with heart and mind. That soul’s existence gets lost for most of us.


    (I saw yours and other pictures in "Faces behind names" thread. And I was too happy to have seen you. At your age, you looks so graceful and peaceful. There is certain divine charm in your peaceful demeanor. I don’t boast a lot, but I can read little bit personality from people's faces. And your reading amazed me and made me happy too :queen. You are one contented , happy and ever-giving soul. If I can take liberity I pronounce you my God Mother :kiss . I hug and kiss my mom a lot. Hence the kisses.)

     
  4. Kamla

    Kamla IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    :))....The smile is still on my face as I just read Ria's reactions to our heroine:))
    You never stop to amaze us all!

    And Chithra, one more Gita lesson explained lucidly.
    Okay, Atma is eternal, anatma is perishable. But then, it is with our anatma that we have to deal with day to day. It is for this perishable and changing body that we take heavy health insurances, make money to feed it and relate with other anatmas, procreate, love and get attached to.
    How can we not mourn its loss? How can we severe all affections and win distance from all affections.
    People who forsake everything and take up sanyas may win our respects, because they seem to have come to terms with this universal truth. But it is a tough going for a samsari like me.
    I am reading, trying to understand and am very doubtful if I can ever attain that sort of knowledge though.

    L, Kamla
     
  5. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    Dear AC,
    Thankyou Ms Prompt.
    Even when I gave the title, I feared it will be "misleading" - but that is the blunt truth, sadly & undeniably. That we grieve forever is sure!
    Yes, please read repeatedly & write again, if you feel like it.
    I am wondering, if a next post on Pancha Bhutas will be relevant now !
    Love,
    Chithra.




     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2008
  6. Anandchitra

    Anandchitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    Dear Chithra
    Why do u say the title could be misleading. Not at all. On the contrary it is so to the point. Very well and concisely written. It does explain more . ANd once again thanks.
     
  7. Anandchitra

    Anandchitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    Please do continue the next verse that you mention towards end of post. Pancha Bhutas can wait i think :)
     
  8. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    Dear Ria,
    Welcome to this sub forum.
    Yes, this article is on Gita 2nd chapter - I am writing on the Gita from the beginning (to the extent I am able to, with my limited understanding) & if you click the index you will know better.
    We are forever induging under the spell of "MAYA" - the most powerful concept. We know in the heart of hearts that as soon as birth occurs, death will ultimately follow. But as ever, we close our eyes & ears to harsh truths, because we do not want to face it or go through it.
    Scriptural reading is emphasised in our culture, in our day today life, more to instil in us, all the truth in all these bitter, hard to accept facts. Harsh realities will not evade us under any circumstances.
    So long as welive, we are attached to body & soul, undeniably !
    I am sure, the thread title attracted you here !
    Love,
    Chithra.
    Now the second part of your post - Oh, how could you be so sweet & expressive? . I pray God makes me worthy of all your nice words. Believe me, in all my life, I have never felt so peaceful as now - in my IL days, surrounded by love & warmth.I am sure that is what is showing in my face. I owe it all to everyone of you who interacts with me. Thanks a ton Ria, you made my day.







     
  9. Shanvy

    Shanvy IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    hi chitmam,

    Wonderful explanation for 2.23 and 2.24. The title sums it all isn't it.:hatsoff..But easier said than done.

    Grief stems out of our ignorance..the moment we grieve, it means there is more for us to learn about self and life...

    I have to go a long way to come to that stage....bonk
     
  10. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: There is no room for grief !

    Dear Kamla,
    Thanks.
    It is our duty(so long as we live) to take care of our body-mind complex though we are aware that it is ephemeral. We have no right to ignore the same, thinking that it is not permanent according to vedanta.We do get affected. mourn our dear ones' loss etc.Happiness & grief are our mind's responses to the world around us which is conducive as well as non-conducive; they are reactions at the mental level.

    Vedanta dins it into us that you have to learn to stand apart & be aloof in yourself & ultimately learn to look at yourself as the observer of these emotions & not get identified with them.Our ultimate aim is to get equipoise & balance.

    K, don't tell me, it is all easily said - I am sadly in the same boat of bondage as you are or X or Y is.But this thought process has to be registered in our mind for our own benefit.There is no running away from it for a samsari, yours truly also included.

    This morning, I received a very unpleasant news & was totally shattered. As I posted this immediately after, I just started thinking if there is any message the Universe is conveying me through that news ! Yes, I am human & must realise that we are mere puppets in the larger scheme of the Universe.Acceptance, however tough, has to dawn on us since we have no choice.

    I have bored you with a long reply !
    Love,
    Chithra.



     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2008

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