1. Would you like to join the IL team? See open jobs!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. What can you teach someone online? Tell us here!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If someone taught you via skype, what would you want to learn? Tell us here!
    Dismiss Notice

The "Highest Divine"-Male, female or nothing of both?

Discussion in 'Queries on Religion & Spirituality' started by Siat, Mar 27, 2011.

  1. Siat

    Siat Senior IL'ite

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Female
    My dear ladies,

    when I was reading about Hinduism the last months mostly I read about the "highest Divine" (so I´m calling it) was refered as "Lord" or "Highest personal god" (I hope I get it right) etc.
    So I´m wondering if You´re thinking about the "Highest Divine" as a male God?
    On the other hand I was reading about the concept of Brahman so I´m a bit confused… `Cause on first sight it seems to be contradictory, but at second sight it may fit in my own belief.
    `Cause I´m beliefing that the "Highest Devine" isn´t male nor female, it contains all and is all. It´s the immortal and omnipotent source of all beings even the Gods and Goddesses. It molds them as twin forms to contain the powers of the universe and to ensure creation.

    Many years ago I found out, that in Wicca, a (neo)pagan path, they call it "Dryghton".
    Scott Cunningham, a popular author of (neo)pagan/wiccan community wrote about it:

    I posted it, `cause it´s expressing some of my beliefs in a beautiful way.

    When I was a kid and my grandpa still alive he taught me that "God" is Mother and Father, that He is "male" and "female". God, so he used to say is like a ray of light impinging on a diamond: every human being, when it takes a glimp of it, may see another calour, but it will always be the ray of light.
    God, so he said, is the Divine Source of all and no matter how people call him, "mother", "father" or by any specific name only the Divine would "answer".

    Well today I think that there are differences between the different forms of the Divine (if You´re calling Durga You probably will have other experiences than if You´re calling JHWH or the Roman Venus ;-) ), ´cause every deity has it´s own… well, I like to say personality.
    But also I feel and strongly belief that, at the end, they are one form of the formless "Highest Divine", without gender, without form.
    All Deities are making the impersonal Divine come alive for us humans, so we can take a glimpse of something much, much bigger than our little mind could bear, understand or even imagine.

    When I was reading about the Brahman, I found many parallels.
    I don´t know if they are really existing, or if it is just a wishful thinking, so I liked to share my thoughts with You. :)

    Well, so far for tonight ;-)
    I´m looking forward to Your thoughts and opinions on this topic and I would be glad, if You could share some of Your own beliefs, so maybe we can learn from each other. :-D

    Good night, my dear ladies!
     
    Loading...

  2. Arunadhri

    Arunadhri Bronze IL'ite

    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    At the core Hinduism seems to be atheistic. There is no personified God of any sex. Generally God is referred to as 'That'. However, personifying and personalizing God is an individual's prerogative. One can change view's as one progresses along spirituality.

    There is only a Universal Awareness that just IS. Timeless, formless and without any attitudes. It does not keep tabs on the doings of one insignificant organism called humans on a quite minuscule planet in the huge universe.

    Nirvana Shatakam, Nirvana Shatkam, Adi Sankara

    I believe that Baghavan Ramana Maharishi's teachings are the simplest explanation. Free books are available for download here:
    The Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi website
    Clicking on the '+' sign next to the category Teachings & Writings of Sri Ramana Maharshi enlarges the item. Titles in blue are for free download. The following four contain the essence in my opinion.


    The Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi
    Self-Enquiry
    Spiritual Instruction
    Who Am I?

    The concept of God is highly personal. Irrespective of the religion and the scriptures of each religion, each person's perception of God applies only to that person and is true for that person. One can have God specific for each activity. Goddess of wealth, knowledge etc...

    I personally veer towards atheism, perhaps, monism. I still perform certain rituals as a brahmin. However, it is with a detachment and the conviction that I am doing it as a duty enjoined on me by the accident of my birth into that caste.

    As a scientist, I cannot believe in divine creation as described by various religions. I also know that I am in the minority. I have no desire whatsoever to change other people's opinions on God, religion, rituals and the hereafter. I respect the truly religious of any faith without feeling the obligation to follow them.


    Arunadhri
     
  3. Siat

    Siat Senior IL'ite

    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Gender:
    Female
    Dear Arunadhri,
    thanks for Your reply and for Your interestings links.

    Well, just for me it doesn´t seem to be a matter of being a scientist or not ;-) and I also guess You are not alone.
    Like You I don´t believe in some kind of creationism or something like that. I didn´t mean it like that (sorry, I really have to work on my expression in English ... :oops:).
    On my "journey" I had to learn to sort out (my subjectiv and personal) spiritual and/or religious beliefs from science.
    I was studying archaeology and prehistory for some semesters, so I´m really aware of the great importance to sort such things out, ´cause in some universities in Germany You´re considered to be a bad scientist if You aren´t able to do so.
    So it isn´t a good thing to mix up religion/spirituality and sience.
    But on the other hand I think that religion/spirituality and sience doesn´t have to be contradictory, if You´re able to draw the line.

    Really?! But atheism is defined as non-belief in any existence of any kind of dieties or spiritual beings, isn´t it? So how could this be?

    Sorry for that silly question, but when God is referred as "That" why do You call "It" "God", ´cause the term "God" is implying a male sex? Why isn´t it common to use some kind of neutral name/term? Is it because of custom or the personal beliefs?

    Well said! That was I´m trying to say.

    Hmm...
    Do You see personifying and personalizing Gods and Goddesses as diffrent and seperated from the Universal Awareness or do You believe that They are part of it, i.e. like or equal with it?
    I guess I read about the hindu-belief that every soul is part of God (please don´t push me if it is wrong in my mind), so why can´t or shouldn´t It keep tabs on the doings of humans or any other beings?
    And when personifying and personaliszing Gods and Goddesses are part of it too, why are They doing it? Isn´t than the Universal Awareness keeping tab on our doing?

    Imho the Divine/Drygton/"God" cannot not keeping tabs on us or other beings, ´cause it IS everything and nothing, transcendent and immanent at the same time... From this point fo view I´m trying to understand how It couldn´t share in something.

    Yes. The light and the diamond ;-)
    Sometimes it´s really interesting to speak with different peoples of one and the same religion, it´s surprising and really interesting how the concepts of God differ already there.

    In the pagan community in Germany is a saying: Take ten different pagans and ask them on their beliefs and/or experiences on/with deities... You´ll have not less than eleven different answers ;-)

    Hmm...
    To be honest I´m not able to comprehend the system of castes. Centuries ago (in the Middle Ages for example) we had a similiarly system in Germany, but today... It´s difficult to imagine.
    I don´t think about my calling as an duty, ´cause I´ve had the choice to take it or not.
    Aren´t You able to choose or do You have to perform rituals as a brahmin, if You like it or not?



    Thanks a lot for Your patience (even with my English... :)) .
    I´m hoping, I don´t put my foot in it with some silly questions... :hide:.


    Good night!
     
  4. Arunadhri

    Arunadhri Bronze IL'ite

    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    [FONT=&quot] Quote: But on the other hand I think that religion/spirituality and sience doesn´t have to be contradictory, if You´re able to draw the line. Endquote[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Where do I draw this line? A soul cannot be measured. It cannot be experienced. Who experiences? The body? The soul itself? Finally it becomes matter of taking things on faith, which goes against the grain of scientific training.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Quote:But atheism is defined as non-belief in any existence of any kind of dieties or spiritual beings, isn´t it? So how could this be? Endquote[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Non dualism (that is, the concept that the individual ego, say Arunadhri, is not separate from the rest of everything) is what I am referring to. There are no spiritual beings, only an Awareness, which does not do anything.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Quote:... but when God is referred as "That" why do You call "It" "God", Is it because of custom or the personal beliefs? Endquote[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]When people say 'That’ the word God is not used. It is really a neutral word.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] Quote:Hmm...
    Do You see personifying and personalizing Gods and Goddesses as diffrent and seperated from the Universal Awareness or do You believe that They are part of it, i.e. like or equal with it? I guess I read about the hindu-belief that every soul is part of God (please don´t push me if it is wrong in my mind), so why can´t or shouldn´t It keep tabs on the doings of humans or any other beings? Endquote[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]It all appears to be a matter of convention. They (Gods /Goddesses ) are separate, if you want to consider so. Why should there be individual souls? Do only humans have souls? Does a bacterium have a spirit?[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]If there is only a Universal Awareness of which everything else is a sort of reflection, then there is no multiplicity of souls. The doings of various organisms are irrelevant to this awareness.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Quote: Imho the Divine/Drygton/"God" cannot not keeping tabs on us or other beings, ´cause it IS everything and nothing, transcendent and immanent at the same time... Endquote[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Precisely. This awareness just IS.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] Quote:Hmm...To be honest I´m not able to comprehend the system of castes. Centuries ago (in the Middle Ages for example) we had a similiarly system in Germany, but today... It´s difficult to imagine.
    Aren´t You able to choose or do You have to perform rituals as a brahmin, if You like it or not? Endquote

    The caste system is irrelevant today. What I meant was that sometimes one goes through various religious rituals so that one does not offend people one cares for. I just do not do any of the rituals an individual Brahmin is supposed to do on his own. When I am participating in a group activity, I go with the stream. Sort of play acting, one may say. My son also does the same thing. Nor do I interfere with his beliefs or lack of them.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]In spiritual matters I am afraid that each one is tilling a lonely furrow.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Arunadhri
    [/FONT]
     

Share This Page