Thats Not Fair !

MadhuRK · Sep 11, 2022

No I'm not talking about an MIL ill-treating a DIL or a sibling rivalry or a parent with a bias.

I'm talking about work-place a.k.a office or the place where we go to earn a pay-cheque in a high-stress job only to spend it on stress-related health ailments.

Workplace is a place where you have a contract. You put in 8 hours or X hours, your job roles and responsibilities are defined. In exchange for your time, you get a pay-check. Hopefully it's a pleasant and decent exchange of goods and commodities for services. Thats it. No family-song, no melancholy, no tears. Simple, straight-forward.

Right ? Wrong

I'm a cat licking my wounds, so I invite you all to share your professional story when you were at the receiving end and feeling "Thats not fair".

I'll lead with my own vulnerable moments.

Short-version : I had a toxic micro-manager, the kind who would ask you to write down when you went for bathroom breaks (just kidding), but in general manager is from a low-trust environment where covering your back is the first priority. Not being used to being supervised or even interacting with such a petty mind, I gave feedback to my superiors many times informally about this middle-manager making my life miserable to no avail. Nothing worked. My "leaders" claimed to be my fans based on my work, perhaps I got a bit carried away by this one. So when performance appraisal came around, I shared this feedback in written form and all hell broke loose.

Long-story short: Manager was pulled up and reprimanded by the org and has taken it up on herself to not be supportive of me anymore. Perhaps manager felt that their trust was completely violated ? Manager has also turned the story around to "show proof" that I'm such an incompetent person that I need this degree of attention and care. ROFL ! But no seriously.

In general manager is personally a hard-worker with incredible technical results but just does not value building trust, establishing a healthy way to manage teams effectively and should therefore not be a manager at all IMHO. Also, apparently I'm the only one who has complained formally ! How ? Why ? I don't know and I honestly don't care. I've spoken the truth in good conscience. Either fix this person or don't claim you seriously care about a good work-culture

" All those who want to directly want to work with a micro-manager, please raise your hands ", said nobody.

Depending on which day of the week it is my response to this changes. On even days of the week, I find it funny that people take things so seriously for such a frivolous thing as feedback about work-place dynamics. On odd days I feel totally crushed and depressed at the turn of events. Not to talk about weekends where the episodes and conversations keep repeating in my head. Time keeps rolling.

Am I a racist/sexist/geographist(?) if I describe my manager as an Indian/Woman/Who has predominantly led teams in India and recently moved to the US ?

Am I reporting to a woman boss ? Am I reporting to an Indian boss ? Am I reporting to someone who has largely worked in India ? These are factors I've never considered before, which is why I joined this team in the first place.

Tagging a few people here who I know from some threads to have been employed, men and women, see I don't discriminate really. @SGBV @DDream @Viswamitra @iyerviji @Thyagarajan

I might have missed others. If you can resonate with this topic in a work-place setting, please help this small cat lick my wounds and commiserate with me by sharing your own stories. It'll help me a lot knowing I'm not the biggest fool.

Perhaps this thread will become a good Amazon book to compile and self-publish and distribute to all offices, like one of those Bibles or ISKCON books you find in all hotels/restaurants. Always found those things odd. Who comes to a hotel/restaurant to read spiritual books ? Perhaps a little ominous too.

"If you are thinking of committing a sin, read this and beware."

Sin includes adultery, drugs, suicide or gluttony or corporate-feedback-that-does-not-give-good-news.

SGBV · Sep 11, 2022

Long before i became a manager myself, I had micro managing supervisors whose only focus were to ensure that we stay under their control.
They sell our ideas as theirs, and get rewarded. But never utter any word of appreciation for our hard work.

15 years down the line, today I and some of my colleagues have climbed up the ladder and became managers, where as these supervisors are either fired or remain at the same grade, doing same level of micro management to the new comers.

But, other than those initial days blues, I never had a bad supervisor in this long career with United Nations.

But, during 2016-2017, I had taken a long sabbatical from the system, and joined a local firm in my country as I had to stay back home for the family then. During that time, I had a terrible supervisor, who made my life hell during that short period there.
It was partly because of my age/experience and previous position as I could not nod my head to whatever the rubbish that supervisor was talking back then. So, I resigned and stayed back until I join back UN in 2018.

MalStrom · Sep 11, 2022

Your manager feels humiliated and embarrassed at being upbraided by her bosses due to what her subordinate says. It takes a mature person to handle negative feedback in the spirit it was intended.
Did you include those descriptions of your manager in your report or is it just for the purpose of this post?
IME nothing good comes out of a superior who is upset with you, whether you feel the cause is justified or not. I’d be looking to change to a different team.

MadhuRK · Sep 11, 2022

MalStrom said: ↑

Your manager feels humiliated and embarrassed at being upbraided by her bosses due to what her subordinate says. It takes a mature person to handle negative feedback in the spirit it was intended.
Did you include those descriptions of your manager in your report or is it just for the purpose of this post?
IME nothing good comes out of a superior who is upset with you, whether you feel the cause is justified or not. I’d be looking to change to a different team.
Click to expand...

Did you include those descriptions of your manager in your report or is it just for the purpose of this post?
You mean the micro-manager descriptions, yes I wrote 2 pages of descriptions. I got feedback that nobody has the time to read such a verbose point-by-point feedback on manager traits and I should learn to write 4 lines of feedback and no more.

Mind-voice: " But but, if this so-called veteran leader you are championing has 20 issues, how can I write about it in 4 lines and be effective ? "

MadhuRK · Sep 11, 2022

MalStrom said: ↑

Your manager feels humiliated and embarrassed at being upbraided by her bosses due to what her subordinate says. It takes a mature person to handle negative feedback in the spirit it was intended.
Did you include those descriptions of your manager in your report or is it just for the purpose of this post?
IME nothing good comes out of a superior who is upset with you, whether you feel the cause is justified or not. I’d be looking to change to a different team.
Click to expand...

Also yes, I am indeed looking for a change.

Hindsight is 20/20 : I could've changed without all this heart-break anyways. At-least my working life would've been smoother.

Principled voice speaking in my head: But this is also the reason why there are toxic teams/pockets/managers in every company and so many people have to fall into these pits and re-discover these issues from scratch. At-least I did my part for a cause.

Confidential discussion among leadership: Let's bury this and move on.

Laks09 · Sep 11, 2022

MadhuRK said: ↑

my manager as an Indian/Woman/
Click to expand...

Madhu - I identified so well with every word of your post including the desi manager. My micro damager was based in the US but still…
Here is what I think, a decade afterwards. Discard all of it if it doesn’t resonate with you.

This is a learning experience. It’s frustrating now, but in the future, even during interviews, you will know to read this and avoid being in such situations.

You will also learn how not to mentor/manage. I never ask people what they are doing constantly, never ping someone over the weekend, never keep asking for clarifications, never make mistakes seem like a doomsday scenario rather than a learning experience, never hinder growth by not allowing cross team communication, I always showcase my protégés skills to the bosses and know that their growth is my growth. All of this came from that one person who did not do any of this.

Know that she will not change. She will retaliate. It’s going to be either her or you. I wish I had left sooner. Your management now knows this is an issue. Regardless of who complains and doesn’t complain, the ball is in their court. Seems like other than the reprimand, there isn’t anything coming. Do you want this to color your days?

The remote workforce is here to stay. Do you want to constantly be on screen so that your manager knows you are putting in the effort? I would look for someone who says as long as the work is done, I don’t care when or how you accomplish it and I will support you in it.

I wasted four years of my time there. I wish I had moved out sooner. I found much better experiences when I left that toxic workplace. It changed things in my personal life as well. I was constantly stressed and worried and trying to “be there” for that job.

Give other South Asian women a chance. It’s already not a level playing field for us and then these rotten apples make all of us look bad. For the longest time I didn’t want anything to do with a desi woman coworker or boss. That changed when I made an actual friend later at work who is still friends with me. It was a difficult mindset to change though. Keep an open mind.

Hang in there Madhu! This too shall pass.

MadhuRK · Sep 11, 2022

Laks09 said: ↑

Madhu - I identified so well with every word of your post including the desi manager. My micro damager was based in the US but still…
Here is what I think, a decade afterwards. Discard all of it if it doesn’t resonate with you.

This is a learning experience. It’s frustrating now, but in the future, even during interviews, you will know to read this and avoid being in such situations.

You will also learn how not to mentor/manage. I never ask people what they are doing constantly, never ping someone over the weekend, never keep asking for clarifications, never make mistakes seem like a doomsday scenario rather than a learning experience, never hinder growth by not allowing cross team communication, I always showcase my protégés skills to the bosses and know that their growth is my growth. All of this came from that one person who did not do any of this.

Know that she will not change. She will retaliate. It’s going to be either her or you. I wish I had left sooner. Your management now knows this is an issue. Regardless of who complains and doesn’t complain, the ball is in their court. Seems like other than the reprimand, there isn’t anything coming. Do you want this to color your days?

The remote workforce is here to stay. Do you want to constantly be on screen so that your manager knows you are putting in the effort? I would look for someone who says as long as the work is done, I don’t care when or how you accomplish it and I will support you in it.

I wasted four years of my time there. I wish I had moved out sooner. I found much better experiences when I left that toxic workplace. It changed things in my personal life as well. I was constantly stressed and worried and trying to “be there” for that job.

Give other South Asian women a chance. It’s already not a level playing field for us and then these rotten apples make all of us look bad. For the longest time I didn’t want anything to do with a desi woman coworker or boss. That changed when I made an actual friend later at work who is still friends with me. It was a difficult mindset to change though. Keep an open mind.

Hang in there Madhu! This too shall pass.
Click to expand...

"You will also learn how not to mentor/manage. I never ask people what they are doing constantly, never ping someone over the weekend, never keep asking for clarifications, never make mistakes seem like a doomsday scenario rather than a learning experience, never hinder growth by not allowing cross team communication, I always showcase my protégés skills to the bosses and know that their growth is my growth. All of this came from that one person who did not do any of this."

Bravo ! How beautifully said. Here Here !

I'm going to be a much better manager all because I've learnt how not to be a manager from this one person. Thanks @Laks09. I had tears in my eyes reading your post.

Thoughtful · Sep 11, 2022

Sorry to hear about your experience.

Good managers are worth in gold. I have had my share of good and bad managers.

I have realized that people management is hard and it doesn't come naturally to lot of people.

So when I get a good manager, I try harder to make them happy as I realize the value they add to my life.

Story of my life. Bad manager push me to work hard and good managers make a compelling case for me to work hard by my own wish. Working hard being the same, there is joy being valuable to a good manager.

I hope more people become good managers so the working community works hard happily.

Thyagarajan · Sep 11, 2022

@MadhuRK
Thanks for tagging to elicite my comments. Unfortunately I don't get any to resonate with your post.
But one think I wish to mention here that never disclose your opinion about any one on the office above or below. Adverse ones would hv the knack with some additions somehow reach the man or men who are supposed to see you on th gr progressive ladder.
I had a boss who had a dislike for his immediate superior. But I could maintain friendship with both which helped to get positive appraisal and remain undisturbed with promotions and lucrative deputations during my tenure of about three decades.
Regards.

Rihana · Sep 11, 2022

MadhuRK said: ↑

Am I reporting to a woman boss ? Am I reporting to an Indian boss ? Am I reporting to someone who has largely worked in India ? These are factors I've never considered before, which is why I joined this team in the first place.
Click to expand...

Am I a racist/sexist/geographist(?) if I describe my manager as an Indian/Woman/Who has predominantly led teams in India and recently moved to the US ?
Click to expand...

Yes/ yes/ yes. By today's standards, such comments count as racist, sexist and geographist.

Perhaps this thread will become a good Amazon book to compile and self-publish and distribute to all offices, like one of those Bibles or ISKCON books you find in all hotels/restaurants.
Click to expand...

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