SLUMDog Millionaire - India Shining and Winning ????

Siriveda

I have given a possible answer to your first question (why don't Indian movies get as much recognition as Slumdog Millionaire did?) here

http://www.indusladies.com/forums/m...ionaire-the-wonderful-movie-2.html#post558257

in another thread that has quite a lively discussion on some of these same issues.

As for the other things that are bothering you, I think you have made some valid points and I don't want to undermine your feelings. I especially agree that the movie lost some steam in the second half. However, I think the harsh and unpleasant truth of the matter is, we are so hungry for Western approval that we are sometimes incapable of just seeing the world of movies for what it is: they're movies, made ultimately for entertainment. Very few people proportionally (unfortunately) care about message and cinematic excellence.

Who cares if a lot of people are turned off India by the images portrayed in the movie? As you point out yourself, most of the problems (poverty, corruption) really do exist.

I could complain bitterly about good South African movies (or Chinese movies, or Icelandic movies, or Australian movies...) not getting worldwide recognition, but it would be a bit silly of me to do so. Movies are marketed where they will have an audience. And the truth of the matter is, there is no such thing as a general movie-going populace. Different people like different things, and this varies from country to country. Just because we are generally obsessed with Western movies (and lifestyle, and culture, and everything else) doesn't mean they have to be obsessed with us.

So, I would encourage you to try to put aside your hurt feelings and just enjoy India's stumbling into the spotlight by accident because of this movie. I liked the movie a lot (although I think it was a bit overrated, considering the other movies nominated for Best Picture) and although I normally hate awards ceremonies (all that pointless decadence, glitz, and glamour makes me a bit nauseous) I actually sat through this entire Academy Awards show and clapped and cried like a big silly and was very happy when Slumdog won so many awards.

Be proud - your husband's American colleague must be living in a dream world if he/she thinks there are any countries in the world with no slums. Of course Indians in the US are "refined and cultured" (although I've met a few who aren't, in my opinion, but that's another topic for another thread!) because generally, Indians who are able to come here are belong to a very specific educated, elite subset. Don't take this American's naivete to heart. Do you think all Americans live like the cast of Friends, or that all Americans you meet are like your husband's colleague? Of course not.

We should be proud to be Indian, and we if we are ashamed, we should take a look at what is causing us this shame and see if we can fix it (like poverty, and corruption). I hope my comments have enabled you in some way to become happier and more satisfied with this movie and what it means to us. I don't think we should ignore the harsh realities of life, but neither do I think we should allow them to prevent us from celebrating all those other aspects of our existence that make life more tolerable.

 

Sirisha

I think I have a clearer idea now about what's bothering you, and I agree that it is disheartening that with all India has to offer, it takes a movie about poverty and corruption to bring India to the world's attention.

Remember, however, that this is just temporary, and it is confined to the movie industry. I have a feeling all this hype will die down soon. Remember, also, that our very strong feelings regarding this issue exist because we are Indian. I'm not so sure everyone else is taking all of this so seriously. We just have a heightened sensitivity to the way India and Indians are portrayed in the media, and we are particularly sensitive to how the West perceives us. I hope one day, I will be free of this need for approval and attention from everyone else, especially Westernised countries.

You have very eloquently expressed your mixed feelings as a combination of numbness and pride. I think that part of our problem is it's hard to accept that we can be proud of something (our country, for example) when there is a combination of good and bad embodied in that entity. However, this is a truth of life that everything we hold dear (family, country, etc.) has some good and bad in it. It's the elemental nature of things, even the things we love.

Also, you have mentioned a few incidents of Indian achievement that made you proud. This is relative, and depends on the individual. I personally was sickened by all the hype and money spent on India's mission to the moon. It seemed utterly senseless to me and an exercise in pomposity and grandiosity, especially considering to how much better use the resources could have been put.

This is not to say that your feelings were wrong, but just to point out that pride and a sense of achievement differs from individual to individual. I would have been proud if instead of sending rockets to the moon, Indians would instead try to do something to alleviate the suffering and death of millions of their country people due to poverty, starvation, disease etc. We need scientists working on those things too, and somehow people's lives seem more important than whether we can duplicate a process that several other countries have already achieved.

I feel the same way about South Africa (where I'm from) spending millions of rands on our defence force when we can't control crime, TB, or HIV. We're not at war with a foreign power (and we're not likely to go to war anytime soon), yet hundreds of thousands of South Africans have died and continue to die as a result of disease and crime. What should we be ploughing money into? Should we be investing in nuclear submarines or medicines/clean drinking water/our police force?

So, it's all a matter of priorities and perspective. You have made a very good point about Indians glamourising a rich, Western lifestyle (in typical Bollywood movies like you have named) that very few actually have, while the West (in movies like Slumdog) may be glamourising a poor, Third World lifestyle that we are too familiar with for it to be exotic or enchanting. This is not a good situation at all, but Third World countries themselves tend to play up this image because it increases the amount of foreign aid they're likely to get.

So, no easy answers, and definitely no one-size-fits-all solutions. But I am impressed with your thought process here, and it's good you're been inspired to such thoughts by a movie. Art should be making us think as well as entertaining us, and the important thing may not be so much what Slumdog Millionaire has got us talking about, as the fact that we all ARE talking. Hopefully, some of this will result in altered attitudes and concrete changes for the better for Indians and India.

 

Siri, have you ever wondered why India is considered 'one of the best' for IT outsourcing ? 90% of the people I come across ,those who stay in India, would reply saying 'We have the best brains' and the rest 10% would be more pragmatic in replying 'We are cheap with some brains'.

An overwhelming percentage of people feel that India is great for IT coz of reason one and stay in denial or don't even acknowledge reason two.Just the way we feel does not change the fact that more companies outsource because we are economically viable to them.

Why isn't anyone complaining here that the West cannot treat us like cheap labour but we bask in the glory of being termed as 'IT consultant'? Why are we not rejecting the outsourced work instead of vying for it ? Where is our pride ?

Is the tourism count dwindling because of drug addicts and sexual predators in western nations ? Every country has flaws and let me tell you some interesting news circulating in the tourism forums.In fact tour operators are seeing increase in the bookings of tour packages for India especially to places with slums and poverty.I also heard that private tours will be organised for the visitors to take a closer look at these slums ? So do you reckon the politicians to ban these tours or will they encourage them in these fiscal times to add some revenue.

All I am trying to say is it is high time we accept the facts and not try to run from them.I can't undersand the furore generated by so called 'Urbane Indians'.I would only suggest them to take a closer look at India and get their facts right.Instead of decrying the film , why can't we make India a better place to live so that we don't entertain anyone showcasing India as a poverty stricken country.

Ansuya made a very good point regarding the international audience.You cannot expect a Icelandic movie , no wonder how great it is , to receive the publicity and accolades made by other international films.Similarly there have been few Indian movies in the past which have not made it to the oscars for various reasons and haven't receive any applause in the international podium.It does not make those films lose their grandeur in Indian filmdom.

Look at our dual mentality.We are proud of AR Rahman for his work/Oscar but despise the film which made him popular with international media.Is it difficult to accept the facts and work on them but easy to condemn someone who showcases the same facts ?

 

Sabitha_K

Great points - good to see you here!

There's an interesting parallel in South Africa with one of the points you raised:

South Africa depends a lot on tourism for generating international revenue, and one of our biggest tourist attractions is an area called Soweto. This is a squatter camp (our version of a slum) which, although it now has some mansions too, has people living in terrible poverty, with no piped water, sanitation removal, etc.

Now, it may seem a strange choice for a tourist to want to visit a place like this, but it is quite common for many people (I am one of them) who, when they visit a country, want to see a wide range of what that country has to offer. I get as much knowledge and value from visiting places of grandeur and splendour as I do from visiting places that are not so glamorous. This may not be the common Indian definition of a holiday (looking at slums!) but for me, there really is only so much artificial glitz and glamour that I can take. I want to see the REAL country behind the facade and the stereotypes.

Here is a link that explains this kind of tourism in more depth:

Soweto, South Africa - Wander the Planet .net

Interestingly, and of relevance to this thread, is how a movie called Tsotsi, which was made in South Africa and won Best Foreign Film at the Oscars in 2005, played into this phenomenon. This movie was about a hijacker (a criminal who steals cars, often violently, from their owners) who inadvertently drives off in a stolen car with a baby in it. He lives a sordid life in the slums of Soweto, and the movie is all about this squalid world and what this gangster does when put in this strange situation.

As South African, we were all proud when this movie won the Oscar. I don't recall anyone being offended by the subject matter or the fact that world attention was focussed on South Africa for the "wrong" reasons. Crime is a fact of life in SA, unfortunately, and so it has become woven into the very fabric of our society, and reflected in our art. What we were proud of was that a South African director had made a South African movie based on a play by a South African writer with actors all largely unknown outside of SA, and it won an Oscar!

I'm sure a lot of people internationally had their interest piqued by this movie, and this increased the amount of tourism Soweto experienced. So, like I said, it's a matter of perspective. We need to acknowledge all aspects of our lives, even the unsavoury ones. I wish there was no crime in SA, but I cannot suddenly become ashamed of my country or the crime in my country just because the world is suddenly looking at it too. It should be something that bothers me all the time, and I should be doing my part to get rid of it. There are many things I am proud of as a South African, but lately my government and some of my people have been giving me more things to be ashamed of. But I will lay the blame for that at the door of the right party, and I don't think that would be Tsotsi, or any other movie that reflected this reality of SA life.

I do not mean offence to any Indian person by writing this post - I just wanted to say that I have a good idea of what must be going through people's minds about Slumdog because I had a parallel experience with Tsotsi.

 

Sirisha

I must say, you're taking all this spirited debate in a very good way, and I do appreciate that. It is a rare thing for people to be able to debate like this, and exchange views, without becoming defensive or attacking anyone who has something different to say. Thank you for being so open to discussion.

There was one point that I did want to make again, because I'm not sure you grasp it. You seem very hurt that A.R. Rahman is only now gaining recognition from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences (AMPAS), which is the organisation that gives out Academy awards (Oscars). Members of the Academy are the ones who nominate and vote for the winners.

Now, there are certain rules to be adhered to here regarding which movies are eligibile for consideration. Although filmmakers from all countries can belong to the Academy, it is largely an American organisation serving Americans and concentrating on American movies (or non-American movies that achieve widespread American exposure). For A.R. Rahman to get recognition for his work on Bollywood movies at the Oscars, the Academy would have to have far more members who are exposed to and enjoy Bollywood movies. Also, there are rules about where and when a movie needs to have played in order to be eligible. Although some Bollywood movies are screened here in the US, they of course do not enjoy the same kind of exposure as "regular" American movies.

My point basically is, this an American awards ceremony run by an American entertainment group for American movies. A.R. Rahman, I'm sure, gets all the recognition he deserves at the Filmfare awards, for example. It is impossible for him to be acknowledged by AMPAS unless he is involved in a movie that fits their criteria, as Slumdog did. So, there's no plot to keep him (or other talented foreigners) out of the Academy or their awards show.

Similarly, I'm sure Filmfare or IIFA doesn't include awards for American movies with Tom Cruise or Jim Carrey in them (or do they?), even though many Indians watch these movies, and no matter how "good" these movies are. It's a simple matter of different markets, different organisations, and different countries.

I hope this will at least ease your feelings of hurt and indignation - I agree that A.R. Rahman is very talented, but AMPAS cannot acknowledge him for work he has done outside their "jurisdiction".

 

Dear Sirisha,Sabitha and anusuya...

Very nice thoughts.
When i worked for a company in India and i was undergoing training a topic came up like why do we get the most precious projects and the IT boom in India?

Every one in team where like WE INDIANS ARE BRILLIANT
(I agree but that is not the only reason we get projects i thought and said to myself)

The other one said we are flexible and amiable to rules9I agree to that too as we do not even get holiday for our INDEPENDENCE DAY...which is ridiculaous...I TRULY BELIEVE WE DESERVE IT)

I stood up and siad that i agree to all these answers but i strongly feel that the labour is cheap here(PLEAS PARDON ME FOR MY HARSH WORDS.....BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH)

Now i work in USA and my employer for one pays me what i used to get in a month in India so see the difference and also they take care of my medical insuarance .....which they do not have to do in India.

The goods here .....MOST OF THEM SAY...MADE IN INDIA

I will have many more points to give away all my frustations ...i just hope that people should have self awareness to keep the city clean ,make every child study and the people in higher positions should have self awareness to actually help the people in need.