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Satan Quoting The Vedas....... Again!

Discussion in 'Wednesdays with Varalotti' started by varalotti, Aug 6, 2007.

  1. varalotti

    varalotti IL Hall of Fame

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    If after writing about lesbian orientation and live-in relationships, if after defending a woman who throws away all moral conventions to find her idenity, if after all these, I tend to write about God…. aout our love for God Well, the first comment I will receive is….. now read the title of this thread again.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>Having said that you will have to admit that at least there is one advantage in Satan quoting the vedas. “Are you kidding, Varalotti?” I can almost hear your angry voices. But ladies, please hear me out.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>You will agree that there is a marked difference between a vedic scholar quoting the vedas and Satan quoting them. By definition, it is not the full time occupation of Satan to study the Vedas.


    His occupation is to study on how to tempt human beings. So if at all Satan quotes something from the Vedas, first it would be basic.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>Second, it would be so simple that even those among us who have not read Vedas can understand. We all know the most profound truth of Vedas lies in its most simple statements.


    So there is a chance for our hitting on a profound truth, if not by design, at least by default. So now have a nice time with the Satan quoting the Vedas…..
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>I was reading about a woman saint, Rabia al Basri, the other day in a web site. (Written by one of the most wonderful, pious bloggers I have ever met, Surjit from
    <st1:place><st1:City><st1:place><st1:city>Chandigar</st1:city></st1:place></st1:City></st1:place>, <st1:country-region><st1:country-region>India</st1:country-region></st1:country-region>)
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>Rabia al Basri, a most respected woman Islamic saint, lived in
    <st1:City><st1:place><st1:city><st1:place>Basra</st1:place></st1:city></st1:place></st1:City> in <st1:country-region><st1:place><st1:country-region><st1:place>Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region>, in the second half of the 8th century AD. She was born into poverty.
    <u1:p></u1:p>After her father's death,there was a faminine in
    <st1:City><st1:place><st1:city><st1:place>Basra</st1:place></st1:city></st1:place></st1:City>, and during that she was parted from her family. She was taken by the robbers and sold into slavery.
    <u1:p></u1:p>Her master worked her very hard, but at night after finishing her chores Rabia would turn to meditation and prayers and praising the Lord.
    <u1:p></u1:p>Foregoing rest and sleep she spent her nights in prayers and she often fasted during the day.
    <u1:p></u1:p>One of her poems which disturbed me a lot and rendered me sleepless for a night or two is this:
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    If I Adore You...
    <u1:p></u1:p>.
    If I adore you out of fear of Hell,
    Burn me in Hell;
    If I adore you out of desire for
    <st1:place><st1:place>Paradise</st1:place></st1:place>,
    Lock me out of
    <st1:place><st1:place>Paradise</st1:place></st1:place>.
    But if I adore you for Yourself alone,
    Do not deny to me Your eternal beauty.



    <u1:p></u1:p>I could not sleep because God has to either burn me in hell or lock me out of paradise, for what I have been doing.
    <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
    <!--[endif]--><u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>
     
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  2. varalotti

    varalotti IL Hall of Fame

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    Somehow or other, we treat God as our rich Uncle and we take the liberty of demanding those things from God, which we dare not even ask our parents.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>For instance when I was in Class 3, I prayed God that I should somehow marry our class leader, a girl by name Rajathilakam. God was indulging me. If I had told this to my father, I would have been torn to pieces then and there.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>If we are constantly worried about our external life, if we constantly pray God for wealth, beauty, fame, money, sex, clothes, jewels, houses and all, if we constantly pray for one thing or other, when can we adore Him for Himself alone? We always pray for…. something. When are we going to learn just simply to pray?
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>When are we going to concede that God with his omnipotence and omniscience and omnipresence is better equipped to deal with the problems of the world, than we can ever hope to with our chicken-brains? When are we going to stop advising God, as to how he should run the world? When are we going to really lift our hands to him in prayer and say, “Thy will not mine, be done.”
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>When are we going to abandon ourselves into Her hands? And like the infant just be happy in looking at Her motherly face, wanting nothing, desiring nothing, preferring nothing and accepting everything?
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>Like Doctors who specialise in Gynaecology, Oncology, Cardio-Vascular Diseases, Nephrology and Urology, we also have specialisations among Gods.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>We pray one God for getting married soon. Another for begetting a child. Another for bringing more peace in marriage. Another for wealth. A different God for our children’s education. And finally run to Thirunallar when Saturn changes its places. Yes, there is no harm in having a million forms for the Formless.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>But when we go on shifting forms, we are focussing on what the God is going to give us rather than on His eternal love which is already given to us all. To a specialised God, you always approach with an ulterior motive. I will go around your temple 21 times, but then you should solve my office problem within 15 days.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>We make God our servant, our Alladin’s Genie, duly constituted power of attorney, our commission agent and even partner in the crimes we go about committing every day.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>The Hindu Mythology has the beautiful allegory of the God distributing the Elixir of Immortality (Amirtham) between Asuras and Devas. Our Acharyas have beautifully intrepreted this allegorical story.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>They say that not only the Asuras who were denied the elixir, but also the Devas, who got it are fools of the first order. See who is distributing the Elixir? The very beginning of the Beginning, the very end of the End, that which is formless, beginning-less, endless and that which is all love. And the foolish Devas ignore God’s love and focus their attention on the liquid he holds in his hands.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>Compared to the all-loving God, the liquid She holds in her hand, even if it be an elixir of immortality, is but salty-water.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>And we are no better than the Devas. We pray the Almighty God for silly things. Instead of seeing his all-loving form, his ever-loving grace, we are looking at what he can do to us with what he has in His hands.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>I wont say this is an apt metaphor; but this sort of comes close to that.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>Let’s say the world’s richest man Bill Gates comes to you (or sends an email to you) and says, “You can have anything you want from me.” He is opening up his billions of dollars worth of assets all for us to enjoy.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>What do we do? We tell Mr. Gates,“Can you please ask your people to remove the glitch in my Windows XP?” While laughing, let us remember that our daily prayers to God is no better than this silly request.
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>So how to pray and what to pray for?
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>This prayer of Abandonment should be a good starting point: (By Foccauld)
    <u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>[FONT=&quot]“Oh, Lord, my Father
    <u1:p></u1:p>[FONT=&quot]I abandon myself into your hands.[/FONT]
    <u1:p></u1:p>[FONT=&quot]Do with me what you will.[/FONT]
    <u1:p></u1:p>[FONT=&quot]Whatever you may do, I thank you. I am read for all. I accept all.[/FONT]
    <u1:p></u1:p>[FONT=&quot]Let only your will be done in me and in all your creatures.[/FONT]
    <u1:p></u1:p>[FONT=&quot]I wish no more than this, O Lord.[/FONT]
    <u1:p></u1:p>[FONT=&quot]Into your hands I commend your soul.”[/FONT]
    [/FONT] <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
    <!--[endif]--><u1:p></u1:p>
    <u1:p></u1:p>
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2007
  3. Shanvy

    Shanvy IL Hall of Fame

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    hi sridhar,

    I was rather intrigued by the topic at the start. but after reading the whole thread my god that poem by Rabia is going to haunt me for some time. would really love to go through all her works.

    Total belief and surrender is what is need of the hour. Man has become more materialistic that he thinks that just as in treatments(alternate ) for ailments he can find different god's to solve his different problems.

    We have a family friend who makes fun of people :mad: who go on and on chanting slokas the whole day. he says adapt a time when you are comfortable. just sit in total relaxation and say the gayathri mantra for 5 minutes all your pooja is done. (but that is deviating from the topic.)

    AS you say we have to learn to thank god for his small mercies on us and be satisfied with what he has bestowed and leave the job of taking care of us in his hands and do our duties as best as we can.

    but a nice thread with thoughts to ponder for a long time to come...
     
  4. kripa shankari

    kripa shankari New IL'ite

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    dear sridhar
    a different topic with an interesting theory.
    satan if i am not wrong was highly scholarly.
    he only wanted to go against god.
    so there is no surprise as to his knowledge about vedas.
    i for one believe that god is omnipotent and lives in every creature.
    it is only in degrees that his presenc3e is varied.
    thoonillum iruppan thurumpilim iruppan.
    there is a story withnarada.
    her wanted 2 find out who is vishnu's best devotee.
    he went and asked him.
    i chant ur name all the time so ami not ur best devotee.
    lord smiled
    he said he knew of a farmer who was the best.
    now narada got piqued.
    he said ha had to see this guy.
    so he came down to boologa.
    the man was a simple person who went about his chores,he would take god's name b4 starting any job and his day passed without much chanting r meditation.
    narada asked god what is so spl abt this guy.
    god said i want u 2 liv his life 4 a day.
    narada said big deall and went abt doing the chores.
    once he had finished he was tired,he asked the lord what is the big idea?
    god said now today how many times did u chant my name.
    narada was astounded.
    ha had not even tried once.
    so my folks,if u take the god's name doing ur duties that is enough 2 please him.
    as to the lady saint.
    hats off 2 her thoughts.
    i guess instead of asking giod to giv this and that,we can pray 4 wisdom and strength2 tackle all that he wantys us to go through
    bye
    luv
    kripa
     
  5. varalotti

    varalotti IL Hall of Fame

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    Hi Shanti,

    After posting the thread I was a little apprehensive about its reception. I am thoroughly convinced of the truth in Rabia's poem. But I was afraid that in a site where slokas and chanting are quite popular, a view like this might have some kind of resistance.

    I was relieved to see your post, Shanti.

    We need to balance the two view-points. Honestly when we are in trouble nothing soothes our mind than a fervent prayer. I am not saying that we should not pray to God in times of distress. We should. We should confide in him our troubles.

    But when we are not in distress, let our prayers be one of surrender and absolute gratitude. Let us not make a shopping list to God and call it our prayers. That will be blasphemy.

    You said it right, Rabias words are still haunting me. A few more samples for you from Rabia Al Basri

    [FONT=&quot]I love God: I have no time left
    In which to hate the devil.
    [/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]How long will you keep pounding on an open door
    Begging for someone to open it? [/FONT]


    Let us use this thread to ponder upon God's love for us.

    love,
     
  6. varalotti

    varalotti IL Hall of Fame

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    dear kripa,

    thanks for the fable of Narada. Actually in the version we are told, there is a small variation. God makes Narada go around the world with an open cup full of oil. The condition: not even a drop of oil should spill. Well, the rest is the same. Narada was focussed on the oil cup and never thought of God.

    I will go one step further, Kripa. God is not a dictator or a person who needs psycophants around him. So even if we do not remember His name at all (incidentally does he have anything we can say as his name, does he have anything we can consider his form) His love still does not diminish even a bit.

    We should do our allotted tasks and not hate our fellow beings. His expectation from us is the minimal.

    And again Kripa, let's not even pray for wisdom or strength. That is also something from the shopping list. Let's just leave everything to Him. Let him decide what we should have. If He decides that we should be fools and we should be weak, then let it be. Let our surrender be total, Kripa. Then only we can fully relish God's love.

    thanks for the participation,
    love,
     
  7. maya08

    maya08 Senior IL'ite

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    wow!
    hats off to u sir for bring a very intriguing topic to the forum.
    i must say that the title itself had caught my eye.it had me thinking....what could it be that must have fascinated you sir to write this topic.

    what u have stated is true sir, that for every wish or deed that we want, we always turn to god to ask her/him of the boon. infact we have different gods for different needs....
    but i feel that we do what we do because we have been always taught by the elders that if you pray hard/devotedly enough,u would get what you want.
    and more so because we were always asked not to expect much of our parents.thus, the 'diversion' is created instead.

    and if we were to ask our parents or anyone else,like you have said, we would probably be get an earful for being so foolish.

    having said this,
    thank you very much sir for writing on this topic.


    cheers
     
  8. varalotti

    varalotti IL Hall of Fame

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    Thanks Maya for the kind words. What parents taught to us regarding prayer, when we were children were true at that time. But as we grow of age, we should mature and come to know the love of God and experience at least a trillionth portion of it. Otherwise our life would become an exercise in futility. I am anxious that we should stop seeing God as Kamadhenu or the mythological Karpaga Vrisham, which gives all our heart's desires. If God gave us whatever we wanted, our life could be the worst possible hell.
    Well, in my own case I saw my school-crush, Rajathilakam, several years later. I could not even recognise the sprightly little girl who commanded a whole class about forty years ago. God shows Her love to us 1)by answering our prayers and even more so 2) by refusing to heed to our prayers.
    May we all be blessed in that pure love.
    love,
     
  9. chitrajan

    chitrajan Bronze IL'ite

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    Dear Jr. Sri.,

    That was a thought provoking read.

    Over the years, I have learnt to love God for himself, though my list of demands on him shows no sign of diminishing.

    Because I beleive that the he is the only person capable of taking of my family other than me!!

    Do I sense a huge relief of thanks because God refused one particular prayer? :wink: :wink:
     
  10. varalotti

    varalotti IL Hall of Fame

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    Welcome Back, Chitra,
    (or should I say Junior Chitra, I think there are quite a lot of Chitras around, so I should say, Senior, Junior 1, Junior 2, or Sub-Junior, Super Senior etc ha ha, just kidding. You may call me sridhar as the senior sri is Srinivasan or you may call me varalotti)

    I missed you in all these forums. Especially when SHE was raging with controversy over controversy you were not there to give your two cents (or rather two million dollars).

    Yes, I too pray to God for all and sundry, no doubt. But once in a while, why don't we surprise Her by asking for nothing, and just praying. As Gibran says God knows our thoughts even before they arise in our mind. So should we need to tell him with so many words?

    Let's not disturb the way we pray as of now. But let's from now on allocate at least fifteen minutes a day for a "no-shopping list, no wish-list prayer". She has been absolutely unconditional in Her love. Why don't to be strive to reciprocate a zillionth part of it, hey, just for a change?

    love,
     

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