Kumkum, Flowers And Woman!

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Anusha2917, Mar 21, 2021.

  1. Anusha2917

    Anusha2917 IL Hall of Fame

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    This is just a "thinking out loud" post. Rather a vent maybe. No offence to be taken.
    Recently mom attended a funeral of a very close relative. The relative's husband had expired because of cancer. (not very young, maybe in his 70s). Mom stayed there and helped the relative. I couldn't go and meet the relative.
    However my elder sibling had a plan to visit the relative on a particular day (10th or 13th day post demise , cannot recollect) but she was instructed to not visit as they'll remove kumkum, flowers etc from the lady and it's bad to watch that thing.
    After my mom returned, the relative's daughter sent me a Whatsapp Text saying how positive they felt with my mom's presence and she helped them selflessly and she's very thankful for the same. I read the text to my mom. She broke down immediately and said every morning as soon as she woke up she(the widow now) used to keep kumkum and then saying that mom started weeping. I asked why is it not okay to keep kumkum anymore??
    She was crying inconsolably and said they have removed kumkum and flowers and I asked that's fine but why can't she keep them back again?
    She scolded me saying I won't understand such things and my aunt was not a "Sumangali" anymore.
    My thoughts are : losing a spouse is hard times and I understand that as a human being. But torturing the lady with rituals like removing kumkum n flowers is not acceptable. When will this age old practice go?
    Compared to my in laws my mom is way ahead in terms of being broad minded but I didn't expect she'll accept and support such rituals.

    In a phone call I told that aunty : just settle down for a few days and come down to my place for some days, there's baby here you can play with Her and it's a big society and taking walks n spending time with my mom will make you feel better. She said she cannot go anywhere for next one year and it's a bad omen if at all she comes n meets the baby.
    I don't understand this mindset . Doesn't nature heal such sad chapters of life . Isn't it better to venture out n keep ourselves occupied than sitting in that house looking at the mirror n thinking to not keep kumkum on the forehead ?
    Why is it complicated ? I'm not saying to not grieve but why is one denied things like not to keep kumkum or not to keep
    Flowers etc.
    Phew!! I wish I understood it better.
     
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  2. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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    There were couple of serious concerns during those primitive time in rural villages with minimum population that was governed by patriarchy. They felt the young or old who have lost their partner must not look attractive for the “ minors” and other eagle eyed monsters. So they felt the need to do those things to keep the person “unattractive” and visible signs to indicate the person concerned is without her husband alive.

    Even three generations back upto 1950s I have seen such persons religiously given a head shave too.

    Movies too depicted this despicable practice to stop. Parasakthi in particular. A TV commercial is doing rounds in almost all channels wherein the baby shower function the lady’s mom being widow watching the proceedings from behind a partition while tears in the roving eyes of the well decorated lady in the family way. Her father in law take the initiative to bring her to front make her presence participative with a young girl holding hands of “grams MA” escorting.

    With advancement in society, people mentality too turned for good and now hardly these are followed in the strictest sense except by orthodox in the society that is changing fast cosmopolitan.

    One remembers the banished “sati” thanks to Raja Ram Mohan Rai of West Bengal During Britishers times.
    • Raja Ram Mohan Roy was the social reformer , who started working for ban on sati. It was because of his efforts that, William Bentinck, the Governor-General of India, passed a law in 1829 making the practices of Sati illegal & punishable by law.
    With every girl child getting well educated, the day is not far off to get these practises on its own to completely vanish.
    Thanks and Regards.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
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  3. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    My thoughts below. No offence to be taken. : )

    Change in such practices happens slowly. Usually, the widow herself might not be able to speak up. It is up to the other women (and men) in the near and dear to prevent the ritual from taking place. There are many direct and indirect ways to engineer that prevention.

    A somewhat similar conundrum in the western world is the debate around 'is it proper for a person to wear his/her wedding ring after his/her spouse has passed away?" There is no ritual of others removing the ring from the finger but there is some eyebrow raising if the person continues to wear it.

    It's complicated. I am tempted to point out that your mother and to an extent your older sibling had the chance to be the change we want to see. Even Voltaire's quote "Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." came to mind, but life has shown me that life is often "it's complicated."
    You said "that's fine" to "they have removed kumkum and flowers" And then a follow-up question of "why can't she keep them back again." This also falls under "it's complicated."

    Even a ritualistic removal of any 'sumangali' signs should not be acceptable. Even if the widow can later start reusing them, the removal should never be fine. Only the woman gets to decide how she wants to mourn, when, how much. When I used to air such opinions over phone calls to India as uncles started to pass away, I was invited to take a plane, come down and lead the social change.

    General thought - if young, modern, educated women wait till marriage to wear the sumangali thingies like kumkum etc, and do so even under no family pressure, won't it follow that they will be expected to give up those signs when husband dies?

    When one family stops this ritual. Then, another family related to that family stops it, and so on. On the brighter side, such practices are less common than they used to be.

    My observation - being broad-minded is not always linked with denouncing such rituals. A family patriarch can be narrow-minded about girls being educated, about the DIL working, about son having a love marriage. Yet the same person can be extremely vocal about denouncing things like removing sumangali signs, not allowing widows in the wedding mandaps.

    Here's your chance. You and your child go meet the aunty. To hell with what people will say. Except for Covid related precautions don't let anything stop you from meeting her. Keep asking her to come and meet the baby. Go meet her where you can. At the same time, if you cannot do any of this, that's fine too. We all have our regular lives to lead too. Though, I would do this one thing -- go meet the aunt, take lots of pictures of baby with the aunt and post on FB with her (aunt's) approval.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
  4. MalStrom

    MalStrom IL Hall of Fame

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    I didn’t know this was still done as a formal ritual.I have only seen the overly dramatized scenes in movies. My grandmothers chose not to apply anything to their foreheads except ash after my grandfathers passed away. The next generation would keep black bindis. All still wore simple jewelry. The one- year rule is archaic. Encourage your relative to come and spend some time with you. It will be good for her.
     
  5. Anusha2917

    Anusha2917 IL Hall of Fame

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    I'm surprised to read this!
    Surprised to see the interview by Meghan Markle about her in laws . I thought such problems didn't exist in the west.
    Biggest joke was Simi Garewal tweet on the same (expected of her?)
    Sorry I deviated from the topic.

    Though it may not have been as dramatic as they show in the movies but I realised this still exists and happens(happened) in my own family.

    Your other pointers noted . :)
    However would like to add this thing :
    When we fall on the feet of elders to take their blessings they say something like "Dheerga Sumangali bhava" meaning "remain Sumangali" . I feel this practice need to change . In a very casual manner with a funny tone I have told my parents when I have fallen (or others) on their feet to take blessings, okay you both say "stay happy forever " instead of the usual thing but never dared to say that to other elders in the family. And I did observe my parents not say that at times. Sometimes they do. But I wish I could say that to the others as well in a funny way or in whatever way possible.

    The recent Tamil festival "karadayan nombu " equivalent of Karva chauth requires us to fall on the feet of husband and take his blessings before we start eating the rice delicacy prepared . I somehow skip the falling on the feet of husband by running away to some other part of the house on the pretext of getting something or at times have stood arrogantly when instructed to do that but never voiced it out anytime. And also it requires us to say a prayer which roughly translates to "my husband should not leave me anytime" . I skip the prayer part and start eating the sweet n salt delicacy. But this time there were some closed ones at home for the festival. This closed one instructed my husband to capture the prayer saying part in the video. So the elder lady at home was to say the prayer and the younger ladies were to repeat. This was done so that the prayer is learnt correctly from the older generation (one can aways google this prayer). So as this was happening I was standing there not uttering the prayer and this was captured in the video. The others were repeating the prayers after the elder lady was saying while I was not opening my mouth. When this video was circulated in family group one commented (in the group), why isn't A saying the prayer. I said I'm saying the prayers in my mind. I thought it would be controversial to say " I don't like to say that prayer " .
    Not that I don't like my husband , he's the best and wish to be together as long as possible but I don't believe in any form of such formal prayers .

    While we should be the change we want to be I still find it weird I am unable to voice out sometimes (well most of the times) and wish my daughter doesn't hesitate to voice her opinion.

    I'm done ranting!
     
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  6. Anusha2917

    Anusha2917 IL Hall of Fame

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    We had one whole chapter in school (can't remember if it was in English or social science) on this topic and how he fought to abolish Sati. Kudos to the great social reformer.
    Other part of the reply : I totally understand and get the point but I just feel it shouldn't have been so complicated.
     
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  7. Minion

    Minion Platinum IL'ite

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    The male chauvinistic society has designed these rules to keep the women suppressed and unfortunately the women fall for this trap under the name of ritual and blindly follow these without realizing how they are being suppressed.
     
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  8. Needtobestrong

    Needtobestrong Platinum IL'ite

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    I have seen the scenes in movies, mostly Bollywood movies, in which the bangles on the hands of widows are broken, and Sindhoor is wiped off their forehead by other ladies...very disturbing indeed...
    But nowadays, many families don’t follow this cruel tradition ..have seen many ladies in my extended family and friend circle.. , especially elderly ladies who continue wearing their Mangalsutra and bangles ( gold bangles for everyday use ) even after the husband passes away..of course, they do not wear Sindhoor on forehead, or wear flowers on their hair...
    They dress in Silk sarees during functions but wear simple Jewellery and are often excluded from many of the auspicious activities in family functions..that is very sad.
     
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  9. Sreevidyaa

    Sreevidyaa Silver IL'ite

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    Times are changing nowadays. We don’t have such removal of rituals by widows in my family circle. I know women wear Kumkum and flowers after becoming widows. Some people voluntarily don’t wear them but it’s not enforced nor are there rituals which are practiced. I have such scenes only on movies. Not experienced in real life.
     
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  10. Angela123

    Angela123 Gold IL'ite

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    I feel these rituals are to get closure, but at the same time, the sadistic mentality of the society to see the widow suffering, just to establish she loved her husband. we do not have that ritual in our family, or i have never seen in my life time. However, I have seen older generation frown when a widow keep bindi or kumkum. But they don't ever ask the person why she is wearing that. Also, they do not keep widows away from mandaps or poojas or weddings and other occasions.
    Btw, have these people seen actress meghna after her husband passed away? How cheerful she is to wear flowers (don't remember about kumkum though).
     
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