If God Exists, Why Isn't It Obvious?

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Gauri03, Jul 27, 2016.

Where do your stand on the belief spectrum?

  1. Devout believer

  2. Believer with some doubts

  3. Agnostic (don't know)

  4. Leaning towards atheism

  5. Atheist

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  1. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Your question assumes its answer. You ask what is our purpose because you have concluded that life ought to have a purpose. Why do you assume life must have a purpose?

    However, like you I too seek purpose, simply because we've been indoctrinated to believe that there is a greater point to all this. But instead of asking "what is the meaning of my life?", why not ask, "how can I give my life meaning?" I take the Buddhist view, which by the way, is an atheistic religion: “focus on the human potential to overcome suffering and achieve peacefulness”.

    Life is worth living for its own sake. I don't need an existential reason to fall in love, feel the pain and joy of giving birth, pursuing knowledge, sharing my life with my friends and family, admiring a starry night, or smelling a rose. Each of these is a profound experience in its own right. The existence of a creator doesn't make them any more meaningful. Religion doesn't allow you to ask questions. It offers answers that you must accept. It takes away the urge to seek our own truths.

    Science doesn't aim to give meaning to your life. Science simply gives you the tools to understand what is, and model what might be. My understanding of the universe doesn't depress me, in fact, I feel the opposite. I am an emergent property of an incredibly complex system. I am consciousness born out of stardust! I am the universe's urge to know itself. Within me I carry an unbroken genetic lineage stretching back 4 billion years! I am one in a chain that has remained unbroken since the genesis of life on this planet. I don't need a god to wonder at the miracle of my existence.

    Here is quote by Dr Sagan on the purpose of life --

    “The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life’s meaning. We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.”
    – Carl Sagan

    Disclaimer: I am not adding citations and attributions to avoid breaking the conversational tone of the discussion. If you need sources, please ask me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016
  2. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    THIS. : )
     
  3. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    To this question, I would say an unequivocal "NO". I am certainly not for organized religion. I hate elaborate rituals, I hate it when one is expected to put on an external show to prove how 'religious' and 'pious' one is. I hate it when being religious is equated with being a good human being. Organized religions thrive for one and only purpose - to retain power on whole populations. It has nothing to do with God or spirituality. So let us not confuse these misled groups with any concept of God, faith or belief. Organized religion and personal faith are two different things.

    Again faith if one has faith in God needs to be a completely personal matter confined to the round wall of the skull. It is highly individual - each one has their own faith or belief.

    Another phenomenon I do not understand is 'religious sentiments being hurt'. D*** it. Do these people mean the God they worship is so dependent on them to protect Him/Her? How more egoistic can one get? They systematically murder their own faith in God by making such weird statements.
     
  4. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Interesting to read this bit. I personally find myself doing just that of late. I exist, therefore I need to do something to bring meaning to that existence. This may not have been a personal choice, but this is where life brings one when one has no definite answers.

    Not Hinduism. Right from the word 'go' it has been about questioning and seeking answers. The tradition of arguments and discussions has always existed. It is only somewhere down the line that a certain category of people with vested interests started ramming things down others' throats. Again, if fanaticism is what is being referred to as religion, then we would be barking up the wrong tree.
     
  5. KashmirFlower

    KashmirFlower IL Hall of Fame

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    Several likes for those quotes. each quote can be discussed as an individual topic, with examples
     
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  6. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    That is not too different from what was explained as "GOD" wanting to experience his perfection and creating the universe to be able to understand it fully in the presence of the duality of perfection-imperfection.
     
  7. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    I didn't want to differentiate between religions here. It is a sure shot way of getting the thread closed. So I'll steer clear of that. : )

    Your post brings up the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. You say the fanatic is not a true representative of god. The Jihadi will say you are a Kafir who deserves hell. Whose god is greater? Whose faith is greater? Will discuss this in another post.
     
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  8. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    But god by definition is omniscient so why the need to understand anything? Isn't he all knowing?
     
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  9. KashmirFlower

    KashmirFlower IL Hall of Fame

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    real questioning and seeking "Hinduism", is not followed by so many hindus, only manusmriti is followed i feel, i didn't mean to hurt anybody, even if they feel inside something else, but afraid of questioning, we don't know

    real questioning and seeking "Hinduism", is not at all accessible regularly, and lot of common people even don't know it exists. they follow some weekly puja, yearly vrats, and say our family tradition, etc but most of them have faith, faith is also a good thing, (if not hurting anybody) it keeps them going, .

    real questioning and seeking "Hinduism", is done by whom who are already of questioning type people,
     
  10. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    No disagreement there Satchi. I'm here only to learn and explore angles and I really really appreciate feedbacks like yours that would give me some thoughts to take back and ponder on.

    I still see my grand mother and my dh grand parents practicing the rules of caste system so devotedly than faith in god himself. They were taught to follow and no questions ever asked in their times. What hurts is its still there, not just in my household, but in many small / big ruralities and people being in different about it. How is it acceptable to not let a man have tea with his fellow human? Why two glasses? Why aren't anyone but brahmins can be let in the core place where god resides in the temple? You may deny they are history but insignificant in numbers, but its not. I understand organized religion crimes but what about the ones done consciously, with consent and conscience too, at personal and indv levels? You had say to each his own? Has the community at the lower end always to be treated low? Doesn't it cripple the growth of your society or they did not matter at all for the growth? But first who pushed and categorized them as low? You cannot just ignore religion out of discussion, it is an integral part too, it what teached about god and faith the first time to you, is what the starting point for following a belief system.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2016

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