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If God Exists, Why Isn't It Obvious?

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Gauri03, Jul 27, 2016.

Where do your stand on the belief spectrum?

  1. Devout believer

  2. Believer with some doubts

  3. Agnostic (don't know)

  4. Leaning towards atheism

  5. Atheist

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    This is partially the god of the gaps argument. You are saying because we don't fully understand something, we must believe in the most fantastical explanation, instead of relying on simpler more obvious arguments. It's like saying, I don't know how my refrigerator cools stuff, so I am going to believe there is a pixie inside who blows fairy dust on everything to keep things cool. A gap in knowledge doesn't open the avenue for something that doesn't have a shred of evidence to begin with. If you sneeze you assume you a) have an allergy b) coming down with a cold. You don't make the leap to Ebola. It's a question of evidence, what we have now and what we can make of it. If tomorrow some credible hint appears as to the existence of an all powerful entity, I will add that possibility to my list of plausible things.

    There are things in this world that are objectively wrong. Not a matter of perspective. Pain that is real and tangible, not a figment of our imagination.

    A 6 year old is raped. Is that a matter of perspective? Or is it an absolute wrong? Is her pain in her mind or real? If this is a video game and your god lets 6 year olds be brutally raped until their internals are torn to shreds, just so he can test our 'fortitude' and we can 'level up' in this game, then your god is evil! I cannot believe in such a god.
     
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  2. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    These arguments are atheism 501. We are stuck at atheism 101 here.
     
  3. deepslikes

    deepslikes Platinum IL'ite

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    :facepalm:Here goes:
    Why are you an atheist? Share your story, and your views:

    When I was very young, I asked my grandfather 'what is god?' He said 'an illusion'. That stuck with me simply because I did not know the meaning of the word illusion and I did not have an opportunity to ask him to elaborate until much later. So early on, I knew there was an option not to pray, though I did not stop 'praying'... which at that age was basically bargaining.
    Life threw some people with execrable morals in my path and it was apparent to me that religion has nothing to do with morality. Atrocities in the name of religion were always in the news. I read a lot, came up with my own personal code and try to follow it sincerely. I have my conscience to answer if I go astray. My lack of faith is an integral part of me and has been unshakeable through thick and thin.
    Life as an atheist/agnostic: I don't think being an atheist has made any difference to my life.
    More later...
     
  4. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Thank you! Means a lot. : )
     
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  5. deepslikes

    deepslikes Platinum IL'ite

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    I agree about absolute rights and wrongs. Conventional morality oscillates, but some acts are so reprehensible that they remain evil across centuries, yugas and parallel universes.
     
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  6. Cimorene

    Cimorene Platinum IL'ite

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    Perhaps a little bit of history will gussy up this thread. Here are two watershed events that instituted our liberal observances in society. Today we are free to express our views on religion without anyone condemning us to drink hemlock. A long way and a lot had changed.

    The State of Tennessee v. John Thomas Scopes


    The Scopes Trial, formally known as The State of Tennessee v. John Thomas Scopes and commonly referred to as the Scopes Monkey Trial, was an American legal case in 1925 in which a substitute high school teacher, John Scopes, was accused of violating Tennessee's Butler Act, which had made it unlawful to teach human evolution in any state-funded school. Scopes was unsure whether he had ever actually taught evolution, but he purposely incriminated himself so that the case could have a defendant. William Jennings Bryan, three-time presidential candidate, argued for the prosecution, while Clarence Darrow, the famed defense attorney, spoke for Scopes. The trial publicized the Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy, which set Modernists, who said evolution was not inconsistent with religion, against Fundamentalists, who said the word of God as revealed in the Bible took priority over all human knowledge. The case was thus seen as both a theological contest and a trial on whether modern science should be taught in schools. More here.

    Vashti McCollum v. Board of Education

    Vashti Cromwell McCollum was the plaintiff in the landmark 1948 Supreme Court case McCollum v. Board of Education, which struck down religious education in public schools. The defendant in the case was the public school district of Champaign, Illinois; instructors chosen by three religious faiths had taught religion classes within the district's schools. More here

    Additional References:

    If you love Katherine Hepburn then go and watch atleast for her sake the formidable Spencer Tracy in Inherit the Wind.

    There's a documentary on Vashti McCollum in public domain. If you are not trammelled by the geo-blocker, easy to find.

    I was being aggresive because if sokanasanah thunders with Atheism 1001, we don't want members to tremble and scram. Hence priming up for the Final Armageddon.
     
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  7. Rihana

    Rihana Finest Post Winner

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    Gauri, I am just not sure what to post. I am beginning to think I am not capable of peaceful discussion or something.... : ( The scientific proof part of it is beyond my ability to talk about.

    You are OP, but no need to respond to every post and every thought in it...
     
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  8. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    I wanted to learn and explore not 501 and 1001 to be dumped on my head!! I'm not even there yet, I mean the 10th mark! :eek:o_O:oops:
     
  9. Rihana

    Rihana Finest Post Winner

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    There can be no explanation for such pain and sorrow. God is a crutch, and a crutch so badly needed that even such human suffering is explained away.
     
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  10. Rihana

    Rihana Finest Post Winner

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    If God came without religion, I might consider. : )

    I have seen religion bring so much and such deep irrevocable sorrow, that I regret having spent any adult years on it. And am grateful that life put me in a place to question it, and from somewhere I found the courage to live with the answers.

    "My lack of faith is in integral part of me...." nicely put. It is an integral part of me too. To the point that when my child seemed to want to practice some form of religion at home, I said a clear No. I recall the dinner table conversation. I said non-religious rituals are fine, traditions are fine, but prayer and worship in any form is not part of my household. DH was surprised and said I was being extreme. But, I wanted my child to follow religion or be an atheist with a good role model, and we didn't have a religious/believer role model in the house. A grandparent would have been perfect.

    I one day hope to have the ability to say that to people in real life without apology and without having to defend myself - that my lack of faith is an integral part of me, and has been with be since I converted.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2016
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