Discrimination in India - Daily Life

What might be the actual reason to ask them if government wishes to provide equality?

 

One of my friend is from X caste.. But he is from a rich family..

But he gets all the scholarship and also got the quota in employment..

Government has actually introduced such things to help the needy ones.. but its used by only richer peoples..

 

I am not against the quota system.. it has done wonders in our country..

What I am against is that it is used by someone to gain unfair advantages..

 

Archana, I do not agree that it was not the politicians who created the divide that you talk about. If you read my last post and further read the links in it, you can see that it is a part of history now how this divide was created even as the constitution of our country was being written.

Why the politicians of that time resorted to reservations for some castes is best known to them. Perhaps all low-income families in those days were of the lower castes and the law-makers did not foresee the economic changes that could happen in future. Even today, the Indian government endorses reservations because it believes that they can help the lower-economic groups, which are most often thought to be ‘lower castes’. However, there are people of ‘higher caste’ also who would come under a low-income category. Isn’t it unfair then that these people do not have access to better education and better jobs just because they are not of the right caste that the government thinks is deserving of reservations?

Coming to the people taking advantage of the law, it is only possible if the law allows people to take advantage of it. If the government really does not want to be taken advantage of, it has all the power to implement its laws in the right manner and to educate its people to follow the laws properly.

In this example, you say the ‘FC’ students who scored 85+ did not have the knack to get in. I would say that they did not have the means to get a college seat in spite of scoring 85+ and proving their merit, because of this caste-based reservation that the government has created. I do not find fault with the student who scored 80+ and took his rightful seat at the college of his choice either, because according to the law and as you rightly put it, it is his right. If quotas are really created for people who do not have access to good education because of low income, then why not categorize quotas based on income? Why base quotas on caste? You can’t create the law basing quotas on caste and then say that some higher-income lower-caste students are taking advantage of it!

Yes, there is the question of ‘creamy layer’. The ‘creamy layer’ is exempt from reservation for OBCs but is included for SC/ST. When the Mandal Commission classified the OBCs in 1980, it recognized certain groups that had a higher income and called them the ‘creamy layer’. The income limit for ‘creamy layer’ under OBC is presently at 4.5 lakhs per annum. This income limit is calculated by taking into consideration the gross annual income of the parents. If it exceeds 4.5 lakhs per annum, then that OBC student is not eligible to claim reservation under OBC category. When claiming reservation, income and caste certificates are required. So in Archana’s example, the 80+ student who claimed reservation, assuming he/she is a Hindu, is either an SC/ST or a non-creamy layer OBC. The SC/ST and OBC classification is only for Hindus as the constitution says that caste system is only present in Hindu religion. There are separate reservations for other religions termed reservations for Minorities. Each state identifies its Minorities and allots reservations for them.

Explanation of creamy layer

Creamy layer in OBC

No creamy layer for SC/ST – a report from The Hindu

Constitutional provisions for Minorities

It’s all fine, but I really believe that this classification of people under castes and religions is dividing our society and is not doing anything to unite us. We identify people based on their caste! Our constitution identifies people based on caste. We need to concentrate on socio-economic conditions of people and not their caste.

Other references:

List of Scheduled Castes

List of Scheduled Tribes

List of Backward Classes in Tamil Nadu

List of Other Backward Classes

Note: Some of these lists have classifications under Muslims and Christians. I do not understand why.

 

I am all for the economy based quota system.But will it be a fair system?No way.Again the so-called powerful would exploit this system.Atleast now the exploitation happens within the caste level.If we try to put a quota in place based on economy, there will be a total mess.The so called creamy layer will also come to this category by using the loop holes.JMO.

 

Archana,

I agree that a country like India with such a huge population with so many different socio-economic layers needs a quota system. The point that I do not agree with is basing that quota system on caste, which according to me is discrimination, which is what this thread is about.

I think a quota system based on socio-economic conditions can work. We have a tax system where there are different tax slabs for different income categories. I don't see any hurdle in the way this tax system is handled, even as people jump from one tax category to another every year. I think the government can use the same principles and logic it applied to classifying the tax slabs when classifying reservations on the basis of socio-economic conditions.

Will it be fair? Well, if the Indian government can implement reservations based on caste, I'm sure it can very well implement reservations based on socio-economic conditions. Also, caste is something that one can hide/manipulate/falsify to his/her advantage easily. Socio-economic condition and income cannot be so easily hidden, relatively comparing with caste.

About the student who took advantage of his caste to grab the college seat in your example, I think you and I were not on the same wavelength about the reasons why this student is right/wrong. I understand your point now. You are talking about ethics and I'm talking about the law. Lawfully, he/she is right; but ethically, I agree that since he/she has had access to good education, he/she could have given up his seat to someone who needs it more. However, there is an extreme level of competition in India for education and job opportunities. One has to grab whatever chance one gets to get ahead in life, as long as it is legal, or resign to leading a mediocre life. Therefore, I still say that that OBC/ST/SC student did nothing wrong by taking that college seat when the government gave him/her the chance.

As far as I know, the 'creamy layer' classification is only for OBCs, which come under Hindu religion. I don't think the government recognizes an OBC classification for non-Hindus. All non-Hindus come under Minorities; and since they are minorities, I think the government did not see reason to have a creamy layer classification for them.

I am not aware that ministers are not included in the creamy layer. It would help if you had a link for more information.

This is an interesting discussion. Thanks for getting me thinking Archana. Our country has come a long way in 62 years, but I think we could have done much better and the rate of development could have been much faster than what we have achieved.

I'd also like to discuss how we can abolish other types of discrimination.