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Destiny - Is It Inviolable?

Discussion in 'Snippets of Life (Non-Fiction)' started by Thyagarajan, Nov 21, 2022.

  1. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan Finest Post Winner

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    :hello: DESTINY - Is It Inviolable? :hello:

    I suppose whatever life granted to one is called Destiny.
    Whatever route one takes up in life, it is as programmed by Almighty in the womb.
    Mankind creation is uniform all over the world. For full term baby ten months fixed.
    But then why the life travels in different directions? Why deaths happens soon or late in innumerable ways?
    The paths one is going to go or follow, the place and time of one’s life comes to an end, are all pre programmed and stashed or shoved under one’s scalp when he or she just be in the semi-liquid form in the womb .

    Wherever roads one must go, whatever lifestyle one to adopt is all destined already . One’s thoughts and discrimination may be anything. But its operations or implementation written indelibly invisibly
    all ready in one’s destiny.

    The echo of previous janam or janams only determines the future -birth’s destiny says Tamil savant Thiruvalluvar who wrote it in a couplet same thousadns of years ago .

    In previous birth if it was destined that soul has to commit sins, the remedy for it is written in the succeeding birth. This too was written in Tamil by another savant Ilango.

    Such “bar-codes” of destiny only rules over the creations. This primordial “belief system” remains imperturpable as rock-solid philosophy in Hinduism.

    Whatever one wish to happen or not to happen
    and its sequel or consequences prewritten
    by invisible rays of destiny.
    It is said if share of one’s efforts is a quarter,
    then cooperation of destiny is the rest of three quarters!
    It looks that is why in Hinduism
    they say for every happeneing a good time
    - a ripe time - should arrive.
    Any rational reason for it -well-nigh impossible to fathom.

    For one to suffer or rejoice out of an incident and its quantum, nature, time and venue of occurrence all already programmed & destined.
    Perhaps destiny plays a major role in streamlining one’s Utopian & or quixotic or even bizarre thoughts.

    During world war II, none had the huge weaponry
    in it’s arsenal nor stock-pile of arms and resources as much as Hitler.
    A single day was enough for him to invade and conquer Poland. By mere intimidation, he acquired the Czechoslovakia
    and without even bombing he could annex France to his empire.
    If only if he had wished,
    he could have had the Europe within a week. This could have been a cake walk for him.

    But then destiny had other ideas for him; it ruled over his arrogance.
    He had ridiculed Britain when war was in rapid progress-
    He was reported to have said
    that Britain is
    a chicken feed for his mighty ambition
    and so he had Britain unharmed and chosen to enter and devour
    huge neighbour nation - the erstwhile Soviet Union.

    He had ordered his army to march ahead infiltrate
    into Soviet Union.
    He was not aware what was behind him;
    his destiny was smiling enigmatically &
    a deep grave was being dug up for him there.

    Harsh weather of freezing winter in soviet union
    taken a huge toll of his army, while enemy nations -
    USA & Great Britain - scaled up there war preparedness
    and resistance against his approaching army.

    He was not alerted enough in good time of his

    Wehrmacht exposed to freezing winter
    and so eventually it lead to his life extinguished at a spot where none could see his dead body.

    Powerful hands of destiny
    hastened up his death
    by “altering the track” which he had strategically planned!

    One can plan and work forward toward a goal.
    But to attain or flounder in reaching the goal
    is in the long hands of destiny.
    This axiom is significant in hindu philosophy.

    Hinduism lay emphasis that human life is connected to
    invisible laws of Almighty through destiny and
    The Creator alone holds the design of death for every one.
    One may call it luck or fortune, misfortune or bad time
    but it is handed out to humans only by destiny.

    “Oh my god what a deep aspiration/desire I had!
    What a great anticipation/ expectation I had!
    All gone to hell!”
    These whining words are of no use.

    Destiny can transform overnight
    a woman beggar into a Queen
    or cause a mighty king as an indigent -
    only destiny decides.

    Lord Rama was ruled by destiny.
    His beloved Sita too was ruled by Destiny.
    Kama and Rāthi too were ruled by destiny.

    Destiny of a besotted hero Kovalan
    of Chozha Nadu was
    hidden in the form of Madhavi.
    Kannakï ‘s destiny was
    lying in wait at Madurai.
    The king Pandian Nedunchezhian’s destiny
    was hidden in an anklet.

    Alexanders destiny extinguished him
    at far distant place Babylon.
    Julius Caesar - an honorable hero -
    whose destiny impelled him to commit several critical errors of judgment by misreading people and events,
    leading to his own death and a bloody civil war
    that consumed his nation.

    His life extinguished in the hands of his own bosom friend.
    The death of Napolean too was programmed by destiny and it stored his end in his unquenchable greed.

    Martin Luther, Lincoln, Edward Kennedy
    Great souls
    Assassination too comes to mind.

    Nearer home, Mahathma Gandhi’s destiny
    was in the hand-gun held by Nathuram Vinayak Godse
    A 38-year-old zealot was a member of Hindu Mahasabha,
    a right-wing party.
    Godse shot dead Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
    at point-blank range
    as India's most venerated leader
    emerged from a prayer meeting
    in the capital,Delhi.

    why Almighty lets atheists too to live long? Perhaps to make them realise in front of their own eyes
    that their philosophy of “non existence of God & destiny” dies.

    In the same breath, I should question myself
    as to why The Great Designer,
    lets a few real devotees to live long.
    That is perhaps to make the skeptical devotees
    and their bosom friends to realise that
    their theistic philosophy is not unreal .

    Almighty has kept the Destiny
    as a watcg-dog, a monitor, a magic wand, a gadget to work wonders
    for few and death knell for rest of humanity.
    It is the divine law of cause & effect
    by which every thought, word & deed
    justly return to mankind in this or future life.

    Man learn to be compassionate,
    knowing that each experience, good or bad,
    is the self-created
    reward of prior expressions of free will!


  2. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    Dear Thyagarajan Sir,

    I have a different view than what was said above. Viveka Choodamani known as crown jewel of Adi Sankara has a different take on this. Only human beings have the ability to discriminate as opposed to other species who don't have discrimination faculty. Destiny can be changed by human beings by using their discrimination and deciding to adhere to Dharma. What we call as destiny is the cosequences of our past actions but the human beings can reduce the effect of such consequences by performing good karma in the present life and better choices to adhere to Dharma.

    Hitler's intention is not to conquer the world to serve the humanity but to become a dictator of the entire world. That intention falls flat in terms of adherence to Dharma. Even if he decided to conquer Europe first before getting into Russia, he would have failed in his endeavor at some point.

    Death can happen anytime in one's life but when it would happen is entirely based on the compassion of the Lord when the body becomes weaker due to disease or old age. Sometimes, when people commit suicide, they go against the will of the Lord or do not appreciation the compassion of the Lord to give an opportunity to cure the karmic burden. They are destinated not to get another body to cure their encryption until whenever they should have existed had they not committed suicide. One needs to realize the life itself is a gift given by the Lord for all of us to cure our encryption. The day the encryption is removed, the soul becomes liberated to become one with the Universal Absolute. They are some who are brutally murdered for no fault of them in which case, a new life is given to them to eliminate their encryption.

    Lord Rama is an Avatar and didn't have any destiny. It was destiny of the King Dhasarada that he needs to live without his oldest son near him or immediate inherit his kingdom. Lord Sita went through the kidnapping by Ravana so that Lord Rama can complete the purpose of His Avatar. Kama and Rathi committed sin so that the life can be created at the will of the Lord.

    Kovalan and Neduncheziyan died because they didn't use their discrimination and didn't adhere to Dharma. Kannagi didn't face any destiny but used her discrimination to prove the Pandyan king wrong. She lived by righteousness.

    God gives freewill to the humanity (whether they are God-fearning or Atheist) to descriminate and Atheist if they are adhering to Dharma, they don't have to pray to God. In fact, God doesn't expect everyone to worship Him but adhere to right living and remove their encryption as soon as possible. Frankly, longevity of any individual (just the body and not soul) is not linked to his consequences of actions. It is just a reset button so that the human beings will get another chance to remove encryption faster. The soul never dies and it is only the tools that are born, sustained and buried/cremated.

    I agree thoughts occur to us based on our consequences of actions. But then, human beings have discrimination whether to empower those thoughts or destroy them without putting them into action. Discrimination power that exists with every human being is his freewill which is why Adi Sankara calls life as a human being is rarest of rare opportunity.

    Note: The above is a personal opinion of Viswa and it is not to dispute any view or other assumptions underlying different views expressed here or to ridicule scholars like Thiruvalluvar.
  3. jayasala42

    jayasala42 IL Hall of Fame

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    wonderful exchange of views ! Reg Free will it is stated
    that it works as per destiny only.

    Jayasala 42
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  4. hrastro

    hrastro Platinum IL'ite

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    Enjoyed the poetic format of your first post @Thyagarajan ji
    Loved your detailed analysis with examples @Viswamitra ji

    Just wanted to add from my perspective and understanding -
    as elders, please do correct me if I'm "छोटा मुँह बड़ी बात" (an insignificant mouth spouting wisdom)

    Yes, our destiny is defined by our past actions.
    Yes, we can reduce the effect of such consequences by performing good karma and adhering to Dharma - but it is not enough

    Good karma is not enough at all, we have to do the right karma, it has to be nishkama karma and then also one must surrender the fruits to paramatma & say krishnaarpanam of the karma.
    When we truly remove our egos and attachment to the karma that we do
    when we act as just nimitta matra (an instrument) in the hands of the universe,
    when we dont attach arrogance to either our knowledge, our power or our wealth or even our good actions -> then it is nishkama karma
    Only then, we are NOT ADDING more to our karma

    And even then, we need anugraha to escape the consequences of our past actions - this can only be achieved through namasankeertana, gyana and bhakti

    सर्वम् कृष्णार्पणमस्तु
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
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  5. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    You are correct. When one performs actions without any expectation of the fruits, it becomes Nishkamakarma. That is when we begin not accumulating the consequences of Karma. It is true we still need grace from the God to eliminate our encryption which in my view comes from adhering to Dharma. Right living is the best way Anugraha can be obtained, in my view. My Guru taught us that "Hands that help is holier than the lips that pray". We need to dedicate the life for the well-being of the world and when one carries out that mission of God's work, the supreme being gets intoxicated by the flow of love from one to many and provide the much needed grace. As you said, all three margas such as Bhakti, Karma and Gyana Yogas can lead one to liberation and all three of them are demonstration of abundant love for the Knower, Known and Knowledge respectively. When saturated, they all merge into one. The liberated soul realize that the Knower, Known and Knowledge are all one and the same.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
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  6. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan Finest Post Winner

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    Following heard in a discourse few days before which triggered the post ibid.
    பிறப்புடன் பிறக்கும் ஒரு குழந்தைக்கு கர்ப்பத்தில் தொடங்குவது என்ன?
    What begins in womb along with fertilized egg?
    அதனுடன் ஐந்து விஷயங்கள் கூடவே பிறக்கின்றன.
    Formula for Five basic things is embedded in the genome or in DNA.
    ஆயுள்: Longevity: மனிதனுடைய ஆயுள்.
    Life of the man or woman.
    எவ்வளவு முயற்சி செய்தாலும் ஒரு நொடி கூட நீடிக்க முடியாது.
    None can extend or bring back the life of a dead human even by transplantation
    வித்தம்: Richness or affluence or wealth: இவ்வளவு பொருள் தான் அதற்குப் பிராப்தம்.
    The quantum of wealth in one's possession fixed.
    அதற்கு மேல் எகிறி குதித்தாலும் ஒரு சல்லி காசு கூட சேமிக்க முடியாது.
    தங்காது. However one strives, accumulation beyond certain fixed level remains impossible. Even if it takes place, such excess wealth disappear or dilute in a shocking manner.
    வித்யா: education:
    இவ்வளவு கல்வி தான் வாய்க்கும். எவ்வளவு பணம் செலவு
    செய்தாலும் மணிக்கணக்காக படித்தாலும் பயனளிக்காது.
    Level of education and acquisition of skills too are fixed. Any amount spent toward one's education may not result in real learning or and affluence.
    கர்மா: karmā:
    தொழில், குணம், மனைவி மக்கள் அமைவது இறைவன் வகுத்த வரம்.
    Profession, character, spouse, begetting children
    இவன் இந்த தொழில் தான் செய்வான். இன்ன தொழில் செய்து தான் இந்த ஜீவன் ஜீவிக்கும் என்பது விதிக்கப்பட்டது.
    Work or profession or livelihood for a person is pre ordained. One would have seen this happening in lives of everyone.
    வாழ்க்கையில் நாமே காண்கிறோம். பலர் படித்த படிப்பிற்கும் அவர் செய்யும் வேலைக்கு ம் சிறிதளவும் சம்பந்தம் இருக்காது.
    Many are seen engaged in a profession or job that is totally unrelated to his field of specialisation/education. My class mate - a rank student - in engineering with specialisation in automobile design turned real estate business man and building contractor.
    நல்லவர்கள் கெட்டவர்களாகவும், அவ்வாறே கெட்டவர்கள் நல்லவர்களாக மாறுவதையும் கண்கூடாக பார்த்துக் கொண்டிருக்கிறோம்.
    One can see around him, a Very good person, overnight turns into a first-water rogue or criminal and vice-versa.
    மரணம்: Death - kicking the Bucket.
    Life’s end or conclusion is pre destined in its entirety as to place, time of occurrence, conditions under which soul departs.
    None can interfere with it. Nor can cause changes in it.
    இன்றைய தினத்தில் இந்த க்ஷணத்தில் இந்த நிலையில் இந்த ஜீவனுக்கு பிராண வியோகம்
    என்று எழுதப்பட்டிருக்கிறது. அதை யாரும் மாற்றமுடியாது. யாராலும் மாற்றமுடியாது.

    A diseased person taken to hospital. After examining the patient, the physician opines that patient is dead and had he been brought to him an hour before, he would have saved patience life.
    ஒரு நோயாளியை மருத்துவ மனைக்கு அழைத்துச் செல்கிறோம். அங்கு பரிசோதித்துவிட்டு
    மருத்துவர் அரை மணி நேரம் முன்பு வந்திருந்தால் பிழைத்திருப்பார் என்கிறார்.
    The question now is “ why the patient could not be brought to hospital an hour before?”
    அரை மணி நேரம் முன்பு ஏன் போகமுடியவில்லை என்பது தான் கேள்வி.
    It is more probable, the physician would have put the same question.
    அரை மணி நேரம் முன்பு போயிருந்தாலும் மருத்துவர் இதே கேள்வியை தான் கேட்டிருப்பார்.
    If it was in the destiny that the patient should have more life, then only the patient survives with or without medical treatment.
    பிழைக்க வேண்டும் என்று விதிக்கப்பட்டிருந்தால் தான் பிழைப்பார்.

    All these five items discussed here are decided and determined when pregnancy takes place and in commensurate with good & bad karmas of (the soul/ person/body) in previous avatar (not necessarily a person).

    ஆக இந்த ஐந்தும் கர்ப்பத்தில் இருக்கும்போதே பூர்வ வினைக்கு ஏற்ப நிர்ணயிக்கப் படுகிறது.
    இதை மற்றவராலும் மாற்ற முடியாது.

    Thank you madam sister for your feedback.
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  7. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    @Thyagarajan Sir,

    Yes, birth, life span and death are predetermined along with consequences of Karma embedded in the life. You call it destiny. No one is disputing it. But can a human life make an effort to cure that embedded karma? What is that life can do to reduce the Karma and eventually eliminate to liberate the soul? If nothing can be done, what is the purpose of life?

    If life is filled only with destiny, how the life can progress towards liberation? Every life will come, perform its action, face the destiny, go back and come back again with the same destiny. What is progression in life and how does one remove the encryption? How does a human-being breaks the cycle of birth and death? Why human life is considered as rarest of rare opportunity? What is the different in case of human beings when compared to other species? Is God's Will for a life to suffer forever? Is it possile for the human-beings to perform Nishkama Karma? If everything is destined why some are able to perform Nishkama Karma? What is the purpose of the scriptures which are considered as whispers of God into the ears of the Rishis? What is the purpose of so many holy people being born to teach right-living to the humanity?

    I think it is best if we can collectively contemplate on these questions.
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  8. hrastro

    hrastro Platinum IL'ite

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    In terms of longevity, wealth, education, profession, death - we are born with the destiny (based on the past karmas and vasanas) - but from the time we are born - we are given time.

    The only time we have is the present time.

    We cannot change the past. We cannot foresee the future - but now, this second we have the power to think, speak, act !
    If we can in this second - concentrate on right thought, speak the right words, perform the right action - we are using our free will

    If in this second - our thought, word and deed are aligned, if we can act surrendering our fruits of action (nishkama karma), if we can avoid shad-ripu (kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, matsarya), if we can work in benefit of the world (manava seva is madhava seva) - with shradhha, bhakti and viveka and vairagya - we are applying free will which could give us the anugraha that can change our destiny.

    So, free will is not directly changing the destiny - it has to go through the above tests and yet, your destiny might or might not allow the anugraha to reach you!

    Keep smiling
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  9. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan Finest Post Winner

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    Thank you for your feed back. While “Right karma” differs from group to group, from religion to religion, from leaders to leaders, it is hard find any living or expired examples of men or women. It is difficult to find one such expired dharmic reincarnated. Living saints previous generations doesn’t offer any clues. May be prodigies to be watched.

    Seemingly leading dharmic bikshus in Sri Lanka were mass murdered. Bhuddhist bikshus themselves engaged in murder. No way to know that dharmics did not born again. Talibhans dharm would be entirely different from ISS. THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE RIGHTEOUSNESS. RIGHT FOR ONE Could be WRONG for another and or irrelevant to someone else. What is dharma for christian could be adharma for a muslim and in other religion(s).

    I wonder often about the Very first man created (by God) - how he could have possessed any + or - karma or and with an encryption long or short? Or a soul committed sin in another world and reached earth?!

    Do our hypothesis accurate, right or totally wrong. Sometimes i brood what is wrong in a soul taking birth again and again. What is going to be acheived by reaching the source? Would God appreciate his creations reaching His feet or merging with Him in an unknown unchartered place? May be i speak at tangent . However I believe Destiny is mighty one and none can challenge it.
    God Bless.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022
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  10. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    I agree with everything you said above but has a slight variation to what you said above in the quote. I believe Anugraha is more powerful than destinty. Nothing can prevent Anugraha from reaching its intended target including destiny. If one has the grace of the Lord, one can change the destiny in a heart-beat.

    We all know the stories of Markendaya and Sathyavan Savithri.
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