Age-Old question on Darwin Vs Divinity !

Here I come Sabitha..:hiya
I am just noticing this thread only today! :-(

As you had pointed out...many discoveries of science can be labelled as re-discoveries...that's how one person pointed out, when talking about science and religion.

Nowadays, I too.. interpret many ideologies in our religion to that of a logical solution...it seems, our ancestors were the most intelligent people, opposite to our theory..

God created Man...according to me God is Nature, environment, Truth, etc, etc,etc...
They also say that Dasavathars depict none other than the evolution of living beings in this world.

Everything fell into place to mark the evolution of mankind...that is Nature..
This is my 2 cents..

sriniketan

 

Sab, I read it a couple of days ago.. Still formulating my thoughts to write it down

Very interesting topic to discuss.. though very often we come across it one way or the other.

I will come back with my thoughts in a while and BTW Thanks and kudos for bringing this up in IL

 

Dear Sabitha,

An interesting topic to discuss.

Recently had a chance to watch a video on "Vedic Cosmology". Very interesting to watch. Our ancestors were able to exactly mark the distance between earth and sun or moon without any telescopes which astronomers, and other astros are using at present. We have been worshiping navagrahas (just 9 planets) for ages but scientists included pluto as 10th in the universe system, now its taken out as the same scientists who studied and analyzed and found it out that its not a part of our universe. What do we call these?

To me, cosmology is still a black box. Well, big bang theory or chaos theory can explain phenomenon by science but these are already laid facts by our vedic astrologers or sages.

To my kid till date I explain the creation in terms of divine. That being said, divine can be Nature or GOD.

Would love to read other ILites opinions.

-Uma

 

Sabitha, in my opinion...God/nature had paved the way for the evolution of mankind through Apes.. is this acceptable...:hide:

:drowning
sriniketan

 

Sab,

There are lot many questions in this post of yours... but those are like umbrella questions you know, you get a load of new ones when you think more and more about it . So I decided to just start the debate/discussion/brainstorimg whatever we call it and go on from there

Actually even before exploring this religion vs science debate, I guess it would be very useful, actually helpful to explore the history behind this separation, don't you think? Why such a division exists? For as long as we, as in humans existed and accounted for, I guess the belief in creator was there, thus the religion. Right from the initial human time somewhere in the african region humans followed pagan worship. At the same time, there were these thinkers if you may, researchers who tried to evaluate the truth behind religion, quantify it, trying to prove or disprove if a supernatural force is out there, if the so called creator existed or not.

But what is the one certainity we have from both the sides - "We don't know". That is the only fact we can be certain of. Nobody knows. That mystery is the driving force of us creatures I feel.

Science? It is a process of working towards understanding the natural laws behind this beautiful creation. Now can science answer questions about God, or if anything else exist other than nature? I guess no.

Can science answer everything? Is this the ultimate handbook for us? No, science makes assumptions that cannot be proved by science !!

Like,
Our thinking process, our rational mind, why we do what we do in our every aspect of life.
OR
There is some order in our universe/world- Morning, Night, Sunrise, Sunset, earth revolves so many times a year, in a particular angle, etc.. there is some order to everything that is happening. etc..

There are people who say, Oh well, we have/can have scientific explanations for everything, I don't think we need God. If all they need is a scientific explanation how this universe was created without mentioning God, well science could do that ofcourse. But what they fail to understand is, just because science gives you a manual, explaining how to operate a car, how it was designed, developed, lets say, without mentioning the inventor, does not mean the inventor of the car does not exist - yeah?

Example, I don't know if you have something like Law&Order TV series that we have here in US. They show how a case is solved. The autopsy is done and all the report would say is how the person died - possible, more inclined scenarios - blunt force trauma, raped before-after death etc... Now that is science. It gives you exactly that. But does the autopsy report tells us who might have done that exactly (yeah DNA is there to know someone did it and can be verified upon catching)? or why they did that? The ultimate purpose of the murder? No. But again since it does not give us the end goal, is it less important. No again. That's the balance right there.

If science is everything, I don't know why I still wonder "Is there any meaning to my life?" right

Actually science always acknowledges that a failure right now to find alternatives does not indicate that the theory in question is actually true, right? It's still a mystery. Debatable. Science is about data, factsheets,not just theories.

Universe provides science with so many fundamental data's, to work with. To find answers to whatever explanations that is required out there. Physics, astronomy any such science can give us that explanation in their astronomical terms, but would they also explain why is it what it is?

Do you know that if sky is of any other color other than what it is now, even a minute change, earth is not the place for any living creatures? Science can explain, what the chemical combination is, what are the different variations that are acceptable for living beings and what might kill us. But can it explain why that right combination existed in the first place?

Even the king of science, Darwin said, 'Even in my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an Atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God.' Interesting isn't?

Many important scientific discoveries were made by great people who had their own religious beliefs still..I read somewhere that heredity theory was put forth first by a monk.

But the problem in my opinion is the war between faith and facts. unnecessary ones. Power driven ones.

Poor Galileo was imprisoned by the chruch then, for showing his support to Copernicus's theory that Sun is the center of the universe. Well, the pope in recent years, I guess II not sure, acquitted Galileo after all these years, but never admitted that chruch was at fault ;-)

The Vatican has it's own advisory body, The Pontifical Academy of Sciences. Over the years they had "caught up" well with the modern science but at the same time had rigid stand on somethings no matter what ;-) Example the use of animal organs for humans. They are ok with it as it benefits humans, but they are still against stem-cell research using embroyos. Ofcourse it is not the same as the nazi experiments in concentration camps. But it all boils down to how we see the human dignity. Each have their own concept. All this pro science, pro life comes into effect. I, for one am against abortion. that's a complete different ball game, may be a later debate.

Anyways, I beleive religion without science is just a superstition and science without religion is just plain materialism. I guess this debate is mostly just a timepass, if you will, or a political talk whenever they need to be in the media you know. Because if you really think about it, each are clearly defined and have their own roles in an human life. Science provides us proven theories. It does not provide us anymore, no ethical guidelines, nothing. On the otherhand, moral philosophy is what religion provides us, nothing more. Religion gave us all the beautiful world wonders to aww about. Science gave us electricity and computers. Religion offers us moral guidelines, spirituality, social services. Science helps us advance our understanding about nature, reality.I would say one should not confuse reasoning with faith

So let me conclude with a quote from a scientist that I admire so much - 'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'.

​

 

Sabitha,
This is a topic close to my heart as well and thanks for bringing it up! As most of us are constantly in the process of teaching our kids, these questions do come up often, it helps to speak out here, read other thoughts and form a comprehensive opinion.

First of all coming to teacher's explaining in school, I do have a couple of freinds who are science teachers and they do get some requests from parents not to teach Big Bang theory as they want to teach their children the religious theory. The teachers always tell the parents that they are not changing the view but are required be the law to only teach what is prescribed in the text books and that is theory of evolution. So it falls on the parents to explain and I guess leave it to kids to choose what they want to believe in eventually.

That said, I do believe in the theory of evolution. It does not mean I do not believe in God - I do a lot and am quite religious too. The way I look at it is, there is this omnipresent super power who has sown this seed and watching it evolve at it's own pace. During this process, what ever comes out of this seed in turn does the same as the original seed and the process of evolution continues. I do believe that God does not sit through each of our problems, but it is our belief that brings the postive reinforcements in our life and we create this life and universe - not only that of ours, but that is surrounding us as well. For that assurance that there is this super power, so much evolution is happening and that there could be other worlds else where, is reinforcement enough to believe in God. For most of the scientific theories, there is so much similarities in nature and there is so much in nature that we as humans still do not understand.

As for God creating man, I have always wondered about why are we not born as grown ups but instead as babies (start as an egg) and then go through the process of growth. Everything in nature follows this principle and the same principle applies for the theory of evolution, so it should only be natural that we have evolved thus far as humans and will continue to eveolve.

For me, religion is personal...very. Infact when I teach my children to pray it is only with the intention that as they grow up and if the going gets tough, they know that there is a place they can seek out, think in solitude and find solutions. So it is mostly ruminating and mediattion that I emphasise. Since they are still very young and I know Hinduism the best, I am introducing them to what I know. The associated festivals, rituals - I look at everything in the same way - an occasion to get together, to share joy and when a ritual is followed, it is the thought process of doing something that is no routine, accepting it and concentrating on it - hence pausing your daily routine!