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Acquitted Of Rape Yet Expelled From College

Discussion in 'General Discussions - USA & Canada' started by Rihana, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Armaan Premjee, a twenty year old studying at the University of Southern California (USC) was charged with rape after he and an Indian-origin young woman had sex in her dorm room in April 2017. They had met earlier that evening at a nightclub and took an Uber to her dorm. The girl later did not remember the encounter. He was charged with rape as the young woman was allegedly drunk beyond the ability to give consent.

    A court later dismissed the charges after viewing security camera footage from the nightclub and her dorm. The judge in the preliminary hearing said that he “believed that the sex was consensual and that the videos were a ‘very strong indication’ the woman was the initiator.”

    The footage that lead the judge to conclude the woman was the initiator shows her leading Premjee out of the nightclub. In the videos, she then takes his photograph, follows him into an Uber and swipes her access card to let them both into her dorm.



    The University’s Office of Equality and Diversity conducted their own Title IX investigation and found Premjee guilty of charged policy violations. Premjee was expelled from USC. He was expelled by the University despite video evidence absolving him and the judge finding the video sufficient to rule in his favor. Why? We can only speculate as details in such cases are not made public.

    It could be argued that the woman could still have been raped even if she did let him into the dorm herself. Well, there will hardly ever be video or evidence of the actual act. It will always come down to his word against hers. Was this case’s video footage not sufficient for the college to believe the man’s version that the sex was consensual? How then can any man prove his innocence in such cases?

    Was Premjee expelled for violating a campus policy prohibiting sex with a person too drunk to give consent? Was having consensual sex with a drunk woman his only mistake? Does any responsibility lie with the woman, too? She was drunk but in her senses enough to be able to have a conversation, pull him by the arm as they walk out of the nightclub and swipe her card to enter her dorm. It's best if alcohol and sex do not mix, but when they do, where does the blame lie? Only with the man?

    I found the video footage and the contradiction between the judge’s and University’s findings to be disturbing and a reminder of how sexual assault investigation guidelines for colleges remain subjective. Was the video footage sufficient to absolve Premjee of the rape charge? How can a person of any gender know if someone is "too drunk" to give legal consent? What do you think?
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    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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  2. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Dec 29 2018:
    USC reinstates former student to reopen Title IX investigation | Daily Trojan

    … due to recent California court rulings requiring new investigative procedures, Judge Elizabeth White granted USC’s request to halt legal proceedings on Premjee’s appeal at the hearing. The University decided to reinstate Premjee and reopen the investigation of the case to ensure fair and lawful adjudication under new regulations.
    The woman is going about her life without even her name being too public. The man's life still in limbo. It took a change.org petition, and so many legal procedures just to get him reinstated and for Uni to reopen the investigation.

     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  3. Amulet

    Amulet IL Hall of Fame

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    We have a lot of fantasies in our brains. Alcohol can make the subconscious act out those fantasies, although when we are quite sober, we'd suppress them, and go on with our lives. This is the same as being able to drive well, and stay within the lane, when one has less than the legal blood alcohol level.

    Alcohol induced subconscious acts are not CONSENT. Isn't there a judicial opinion on this? if there isn't one, there ought to be one. Something that links legal alcohol limit for driving with legal ability to give consent for sex.
     
  4. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    ^^^
    As mentioned in first post: How can a person of any gender know if someone is "too drunk" to give legal consent?

    Carry a breathalyzer kit on Friday evenings out? Bars should provide this next to fire extinguishers and in restrooms and colleges provide it in dorm's common areas? :rolleyes:
     
  5. Amulet

    Amulet IL Hall of Fame

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    If the raped is marginally less drunk than the rapist (comparative blood alcohol levels), and neither one is able to give legal consent to what happened, what happens in such cases (judiciously speaking)?

    Bartenders would decline (not refuse, which is a stronger denial) to serve people who are too drunk. If bars had a scheme where they could put a sticker (like "I voted") that says "too drunk for consent" on the foreheads of patrons, that would be a good service. They should also have stickers that say "Never too drunk for consent", for those who want it badly enough.
     
  6. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Anyone whom you wouldn’t hand your car keys to and sit in the passenger seat isn’t in a position to consent, I would assume.

    She is going about her life? After feeling that she was violated? How so?

    Consent demystified - even if she says yes, opens door, leads on and is too drunk chances are she won’t remember. Don’t do it.
     
  7. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Love this! So typically British!!! :roflmao:
     
  8. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Let's say both were drunk. She found him ready and had her way with him with or without his consent. In the morning, how is it decided who was raped and who was the rapist. And what was the alcohol level when consent was allegedly (last) given.
     
  9. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Not an easy decision. I don't envy the judge her job. Having said which, I'd probably go with the video and acquit the accused.

    I tell you, judging the FP nominations is probably an easier job to do and I'll rush there to do the needful before I lose that job!
     
  10. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Again car driving scenario. Too drunk to drive, don’t do it.
    If tables were turned and he was drunk too and woke up not remembering then technically he can press the same title IX charges no? It doesn’t state the gender of the student. It also used to mandate colleges do a thorough investigation and not do a wishy washy job, sweeping things under the carpet. That was until Betsy Devos came along and in the name of fixing the rule, decided to give her private college funders a huge leeway in investigations.

    Btw - this late in the night? Really? Go to bed. We can keep chatting later.
     
    MalStrom likes this.

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