A lil different and very shocking life

CrayoNess · Apr 17, 2015

tarasharma said: ↑

2 weeks is enough? A baby sleeps 20 hours a day?
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Two week paternity leave is sufficient if it is a normal delivery. After that you are able to go out with the baby (and do the grocery shopping, doctor appointments etc), you are mostly recovered physically and you can live a normal life including cooking and household chores. A newborn sleeps basically around the clock (with feedings in between) and then gradually starts to be awake for longer periods.

tarasharma · Apr 17, 2015

@Crayoness

Yes Yes, I totally agree. taking a two week old baby grocery shopping and exposing it to different germs and pollutants. How enlightening

butterflyice · Apr 17, 2015

CrayoNess said: ↑

Two week paternity leave is sufficient if it is a normal delivery. After that you are able to go out with the baby (and do the grocery shopping, doctor appointments etc), you are mostly recovered physically and you can live a normal life including cooking and household chores. A newborn sleeps basically around the clock (with feedings in between) and then gradually starts to be awake for longer periods.
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IF new mom is mostly recovered by 2 weeks, why is 6 weeks given as maternity leave? It should be reserved for C sections only. Perhaps all the labour law makers around the world should consult your services in the service of womankind!

2 weeks is not paternity leave! Its the total leave that one gets to tak in a year for god's sake! Its the sum total of leaves that one gets to take when sick, when visiting an ailing parent back in India or celebrating major festivals for which we do not get any leave in US. No one gets to take 2 weeks off in a chunk.

You consider parents/in laws visiting their children an invasion of privacy.

And yet, you a stranger on the internet has no compunctions whatsoever, in doling out childish, immature and inhumane advice on how much rest a new mom needs, what food she should eat, how many days her husband should take leave, how many days her parents should visit her. Aren't you just invading privacy of new moms here?

This is exactly the kind of MIL behaviour that we detest and that we complain about on IL.

A new born sleeps around the clock?? Wow!! Like gelatin in considered vegetarian in your universe!!

CrayoNess · Apr 17, 2015

It takes several months to recover from a delivery but after a couple of weeks you are able to do normal household activities, going out for walks etc. And it is good for the recovery to be physically active.

I brought up the challenges the couple will face if the grandparents come during the delivery (as we could see from this original post and several threads). Why not wait for a few weeks until the family has settled down with the baby? And this expectation that the mother has to come to "help" when the daughter has a baby. It is important for the baby and grandparents to bond and spend time together. But what help would to healthy adults with one baby really need? If this "help" is causing more problems than benefits.

butterflyice · Apr 17, 2015

CrayoNess said: ↑

Please show me some scientific evidence about the effects regarding fenugreek. Are you saying that child/mother mortality is higher in countries not eating fenugreek? .
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So this is about fenugreek. I do not understand most of what it says, but I am sure you will understand.

file:///C:/Users/shree_2/Downloads/0046352b850660ab54000000%20(2).pdf

And this one about ghee :

The effect of ghee (clarified butter) on serum lipid levels and microsomal lipid peroxidation

I havent claimed in any of my posts that child/mother mortality is higher in countries not eating fenugreek. If that's your takeaway from this discussion, so be it. What else can I say when stalwarts of witty debates like @rihana say I give up!

butterflyice · Apr 17, 2015

tarasharma said: ↑

Yes Yes, I totally agree. taking a two year old baby grocery shopping and exposing it to different germs and pollutants. How enlightening
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Dude, did you mean 2 day old baby?

Didnt you know germs and pollutants have the same, ahem, genetic makeup all over the world ?

tarasharma · Apr 17, 2015

I meant a two week old baby as suggested by @Crayoness.

I have edited now.

SGBV · Apr 17, 2015

Why are we arguing instead of diplomatically agree to disagree with virtual strangers here?

The point is very clear. i.e whether it is important to have parents/in laws support during/after the delivery or not.
Everyone knows it has both pros and cons. It is basically up to the level of understanding, family dynamics and also depending on the persons involved.

Above all, there is something called flexibility. Adjusting and adapting to the environment/circumstance as adults.

@CrayoNess is right... If a parents' or in laws' visit is so much of drama, then we should be able to handle pregnancy and delivery on our own. Two adults with a tiny newborn is not a rocket science. That too in a more developed country with lot of available facilities.

It is hard to understand, why someone feels lost when their trouble making parents and in laws' refuse to come for help during delivery. Instead, I would dance with joy. Because we expect help because of love cum emotional reasons. Not because we can't handle the delivery or newborn alone. So, if it is clear that the love cum emotional support is not gonna be there, then why bother?

As for fenugreek and ghee.... Yes, it is fine if you have it, or if someone could make it for you. But it is not the basic food for a new mom. You can very well manage your breast feeding, and postpartum without fenugreek, garlic, oil massage, and that thing called Ayurveda bath.

My MIL wanted to give me and the child some medicinal food, fenugreek, ghee, and some ayurveda stuff such as bath, massage etc..etc.. to ensure I recovered fast. But I know for sure that my MIL would come with a package called "unwanted advice, cribbing, insulting, and causing so much emotional/financial drama". I wasn't ready to face them then. So, I avoided this luxury of medicinal food and ayurveda helps altogether.
My mom was old, and not physically sound to do such things. But she stayed with us to give me love, emotional courage and also to be there for the baby.
I did not go through any such postpartum customs during both of my deliveries. I took head bath the next day after the c-section at my bathroom shower, and took the antibodies and other vitamins including some pills to improve lactation.
I ate normal food cooked by the maid, I avoided some spicy and oily stuff (since I have bad acidity).
Even from outside my MIL would shout as if I am not following the custom. But I did not die, nor my baby.
The 5th day after the c-section, I was totally up. I bathed the baby, I did basic chores at home.
In addition, I was also taking care of my other baby during my second delivery.

On the 10th day after my second kid was born, the Pediatrician suspected of some weird heart murmur. I was worried, so I took the baby to some special cardio hospital (100km away from home) with my husband and other kid alone. It was a whole day trip with the tests, echo gram etc..etc... but I took complete care of the baby despite of having the second c-sec.

My mom stayed at home for a reason. I could have called my MIL (who stays near by) to help. But I didn't
Because, I could very well care for myself and baby rather than inviting a trouble to help.

So, like @CrayoNess, I also dont understand why some women feel helpless after the birth of a baby.
It is true that you feel blessed to have good support around. It is indeed a blessing as i mentioned in my earlier thread.
Also, you really need help if the mom or baby has health issues. Or the husband can't stand by.
Otherwise, if the helper is not ready to come, or trouble making type, then why cry for not having them? Can't you really manage these?

On the other hand, I see what @butterflyice and others have to say here.
@CrayoNess has got no rights to blame or defame the Indian culture here. The traditional way of securing a mom and newborn itself a very beautiful thing. The people who were born and raised in such a culture can't let it go that easily. It is also scientifically proven to be helpful at various ways.
Such helps are traditionally available for many women who lives in the country. However, we need to know one thing. The traditional women who enjoys the luxury of happy pregnancy and postpartum are also suffering with gender discrimination, DV, power struggle, etc..etc..
Since it is part and parcel of their family life, they are prone to it.

We modern women fight against discrimination, dowry and DV. We want equal rights and respect and we are almost there to get it.
To be independent, you need to grow self dependent first. if you feel bad for not having fenugreek, ghee and ayurvedic massage from parents/in laws despite of other issues, then it makes you dependent anyway. That is not healthy.

I am sure no one is against parents' pure support and love at anytime of your life, leave alone pregnancies. But what if such supports comes with a package called "marital issues" as discussed in the OP here. Do you still require such support? Or you think you can handle it alone?

Weighing the pros and cons of everything before jumping into a decision is what mostly important here.

butterflyice · Apr 17, 2015

@SGBV, I totally agree with you that we should agree to disagree.

What I do not agree with is the prescribing of who should stay with new mom, what food she should eat, the role of husband and so on. I am sure its these reasons that made you keep your MIL at a distance.

We are mixing up a whole lot of issues here. Being assertive and ambitious does not mean we are independent all the time. There is no such thing, we are always dependent on someone or the other. If one is not depending on mother or MIL for assistance post delivery, then its the husband or hired help. If we were to equate emotional needs as the worst form of dependence, then there is no need to marry or have children. I am sure you understand this very well, you have mentioned in several posts how helpful it is to have your mom live with you while you work.

One of the primary lessons that preschoolers learn is to ask for help when you cannot do something on your own. One woman might be able to do everything by herself, another might need help. Let's not put down the second type for asking help citing women emanicipation. After all, emanicipation should pave the way for a better life, not prove to anyone how capable the woman is.

Trust me, my husband and I did it all alone for our first child. I had an episiotomy, it was HELL!! My baby did not sleep angellically for 20 hours. It was very tough to figure out what was wrong with him. The only thing that soothed his colic were these so derided, ayurvedic massages and carnatic music. I am not saying this will work for everyone or that people will not survive if these are not available. Of course they will survive. A lady delivered a baby in train, both survived. Kids are born in war front. They survive too.

But we all want the best things and the finer things in life when the going is good. Wanting to provide the best care for your baby is a very natural need. If my mom or MIL is equipped to do that, I do not see how it hurts another person. If eating ghee or fenugreek is good for me and my baby, I am going to do that, how does that affect another person who is not related to this business at all?

To give another analogy, I can send my child to a government run school which will still provide a decent education. But I want the best for my child and so I send him to private school. Where is the need for an external party to judge my decision or my child or my relationship with him? If I need to work extra hours and this creates friction are we going to say, quit the job because there is friction, given the goals I have for my kids?

There is this assumption that moms and MILs always create trouble for the new mom and baby. That is such a very wrong generalisation. Living with parents or in laws does not automatically mean there is dowry or domestic violence involved. That would be an absurd connection to make.

What others see as a problem, I see as an opportunity to learn resourcefulness, the ability to live with people of different opinions and from different generations. Its a valuable skill that is not taught in any college but very necessary to navigate Life.

What one does depends on family dynamics, its not for outsiders to judge.

yellowmango · Apr 17, 2015

I agree with SGBV.
Agree to disagree.
Agree with CrayoNess that pregnancy is not a disease and we do need to view it as such
Agree with butterflyice that different things work for different people.

What I have observed though is that in a country obsessed with reproduction(when is the good news??) ....people do not let pregnancy be a normal thing. There are women who expect to be taken care of the moment they get pregnant like they suddenly became incapable of being adult. Special medical reason aside....there is no need for this.Even parents of both sides sometimes will not allow a pregnant woman to be an independent adult.

I feel if you have good relations with the parents/in laws ...then do let them come over and do their bit and you enjoy it.But if relationships are not good...then these helping visits can do a lot of harm to future relationships.

My parents had come over for my first one with the pregnancy laddoos and stuff. They helped.It was good .

No one could come during the second one....Husband had to join work a day after my second one was born.It was just me and a rather inefficient maid. I have good memories of that too. No massages or laddoos.No post partum food.It was fine too.

I would rather shoot myself in the foot than have my mil for my delivery.

When My sister had her first one.....her greedy foodie husband ate most of her pregnancy ladoos.....and he looked like he ate a tin full of ladoos.gigglingsmileyMy mom was shocked....but my sis told her...it's okay mummy,let him eat ...he is enjoying them.