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What Is Moral, What Is Immoral And What Is The Line Between Them

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by SGBV, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. venkiis

    venkiis Bronze IL'ite

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    I used to come to this site a lot , now rare. because i am separated and living the best of my life. this thread triggered some memories not good though.

    some men are insecure.

    some become insecure. I became insecure. I still remember i encouraged my wife, to go out and have fun outside work with her co-workers ( in a of course decent way) . but when i found out, she was having an affair. it ruined everything. i became super insecure and being a super techie tracked her every move. she blamed me for tracking her and being nosy and rather than holding herself accountable for even feeling bad for what she did. even if she had put all her emotional and physical effort after the fact, it would have been ok but NO. So, that ended up in separation.

    sorry i do not want to hijack this thread. but women get more attention. and I agree fully what you have said - I wonder if it's directly linked to the type of relationship some people have in their marriage.

    if both the partners do not communicate their needs openly without fight, and do not put all their efforts, it is just waste and better to live alone because after some time, 1 partner will be unhappy and fight back through some way .
     
  2. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    @venkiis

    As I explained in my other thread, going out or having fun with friends doesn't lead to EMA. Because the women in Biblical era, where there was no liberation for them had EMA.
    EMA is not a new thing among working women or modern women who have friendship with opposite gender, but a very common and very old matter, that my granny has stories of EMAs in her times too.
    So, your wife's cheating has got nothing to do with this thread. She has cheated on you since you have allowed her to have fun with friends outside. If not, she would have brought her friends inside home when you were not around.
    It is something to do with her character and not about anything else.

    As for the type of relationship Vs companionship outside of marriage... I see it differently.
    Marriage is a kind of special bond where a H and W share a special kind of love and affection both emotionally and physically. That progress with life changes such as kids, career and responsibility...
    But companionship aka friendship is a different issue. Some spouses are very friendly, yet not the kind of friendship we share with other friends.
    Some spouses maintain a decent gap in the name of respect, and that's where the need for a friend pops in.
    Friendship is very different from a conjugal relationship. It is not romantic, not physical and not really family based.
    It can be emotional, motivational, fun and at times helpful too.
    Just because there is a friend in the picture, it doesn't mean the marriage is disturbed.

    Now the question comes when the friend becomes someone of the opposite gender.
    Not everyone sees the other gender romantically. You can see a friend as a brother, as a companion or just as a friend alone.
    It's all about your mental maturity and what you want in the relationship.

    If your marriage is very strong, and it is build on love and respect among partners, then such friendships can never shake it.
    However, if your marriage is very weak, and it is just duty based... of course, you may slip in to emotional or physical relationship with a friend, depending on your character and that of your friend.
     
  3. lavani

    lavani Silver IL'ite

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    I am not sure i read anywhere where he said, he allowed her to have fun in an indecent manner. i see your views very opinionated, just because he is a male and also the idea of the term fun might be different in your vocabulary.

    Is going to bowling with team after work is considered bad fun or good fun??.

    sorry , i did read his thread and other posts, he can clearly mentioned his marriage was not good and also his posts show him a pretty level headed person.

    i am sorry if it hurts you with my comments, but i have been pretty judgmental on both sides of gender ( I guess having a teen boy and girl has to do with it. )
     
  4. Sunshine04

    Sunshine04 Platinum IL'ite

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    Yes. When we are having a rough patch in marriage, I did have a crush on our family friend.
     
  5. BhumiBabe

    BhumiBabe Platinum IL'ite

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    Your wording is a bit harsh @SGBV. I think @venkiis has a good point, regarding the perspective of a spouse who has been burned. His ex-wife abused the trust, and they already had other marital problems, and he admits that feeling insecure - something that is not uncommon in relationships.

    The friendships we are talking about are not explicit cheating, but each person has their own definition of cheating. To some people, their spouse complimenting someone of the opposite sex or even sitting by someone on the sofa - would make them uncomfortable. Where do we draw the line? It's tough to tell. I was reading about emotional cheating, and its detrimental effects. To some people, it might not be a big deal, but to others the emotional cheating is far worse than physical cheating.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  6. Amulet

    Amulet Silver IL'ite

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    I LOL'd at the turn of phrase in " marriage is very weak, and it is just duty based ". Our customs are what gets us the duty.

    Aren't most of us married through the arranged marriage scheme? When we get to the marriage day, we certainly have mental baggages.... some are fantasies, and others are experiences in the community/culture we had lived/grownup in.

    Aversion to physical groping by strangers is par for the course for most of us who had grown up in India. This kind of feeling is what makes a bride go stiff with fear at the thought of having to allow "liberties" to someone who is not at all familiar to her. I have once overheard one aunty advice a bride to think of someone she really likes (a movie actor's name was mentioned), and be adjustable. Everyone laughed, and someone doubled down on that comment, saying that the child will be as handsome as that actor. Many years later ( after I know enough English) I found out that the English people had the same idea with the advice to the bride in the "close your eyes,....., and think of England".

    Whether it is eastern or western culture, we have recognized that the mind will wander. And we usually do not bother others (including the husband) with all that goes on in the head. Unless asked "what is in your baggage?", we should never volunteer; if we do, we'd get charged customs-duty.

    I have read many stories of married girls with two rapid pregnancies, IL issues of living in a collective family, money-shortage, affection-shortage, and various other problems. All of them hardly have time to take a peaceful deep breath for a few minutes a day. While private fantasies of an alternate universe is a chronic condition, some furtive EMA is hardly a cure for what ails them. When EMA happens, it is more like self-flagellation. :rage::cry:
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  7. Sunshine04

    Sunshine04 Platinum IL'ite

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    Good one
    Well summarized our Indian arranged marriage :facepalm:
     
  8. anonyman

    anonyman New IL'ite

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    Absolutely. Romancing someone is something more than a crush and at par with a physical relationship. And truth be told I am more liberal and open (to and from wife) than what people here may be willing to accept. I am only uncomfortable if my wife has an intense emotional relationship with another man (with or without my knowledge), rest(including some play) I don't really see the fuss unless its done in secret.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  9. SGBV

    SGBV IL Hall of Fame

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    I am sorry @venkiis ,@BhumiBabe and @lavani

    I did not mean Mr Venkiis allowed his wife to have fun, which lead to this EMA.
    I meant his wife had EMA bcz of her character and this liberty to get out with friends became an excuse for her.
    Had she stayed at home without such opportunities, even then she would have cheated him in some other way.
    For me, her character and possibly some marital dissatisfaction may have lead this.

    And therefore i don't want people to fear the closeness between opposition gender.
    Just bcz some women cheated bcz they were too close with men after marriage, doesn't mean everyone is into cheating.

    If one is blessed with a good marriage, and his/her marital needs are met in that union, and if there is mutual love and respect... I don't think a mere friendship or even a crush could push a woman with character in to EMA.
    That's why i believe such extreme moral policing is unnecessary. One should not be this strict on self.

    @Sunshine04

    Not necessarily you need to suffer a bad marriage to have a crush or friendship outside the marriage with opposite gender.
    This is what i try to clarify in each of my posts.

    To be honest, I never had feelings as such when i had troubles in my marriage. May be i was dead inside or may be my focus was on something else very serious.
    But when i am sailing this smooth space, I do have crushed and friendships.
    I think it is because i have come to a very matured stage in life, where i could distinguish the difference between my marriage and other feelings.
     
  10. gorgeous23

    gorgeous23 Silver IL'ite

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    have i ever had a crush on somone outside of my marriage? yes
    did i ever tell him ? no
    did i ever feel the need to ?no
    did i like talking to him?yes. i liked the attention i got, honestly.
    was there any problem in my marriage?No
    did i ever tell my husband? no
    why , when it was purely harmless stuff , did i not tell H. because, he has rather closed opinions about it.
    of all the things i have learnt in my marriage ( & mind u i recd this advice from many other older women, only i didnt pay attention), the most imp thing is : I dont need to tell my husband of all the things that go on in my head.

    now coming to H, the deptt he works in, there are lot of girls just out of college who are assigned to him as trainees, evry year & by his own admission , a lot of them flirt with him. (H is rather good looking & handsome) i hav never asked him to elaborate on this nor has he volunteered to do so.
    now wud u believ he never ever felt attracted towards any of them ? i doubt so.
    when u have sum attractive young girls fawn all over u, u may also hav a crush.
    but then, as @Rakhii said in other thread, what i dont know wont hurt me.

    also, most of this crush is in my head. the other person never need to know. but just happening to see him for a few seconds made me feel better for two days, does it hurt anybody ?ofcourse i liked talking to him, even if purely work related things, but sumhow it brightened up my otherwise boring routine life, is is wrong ? the few chats i had with him wer all routine stuff, what my kids like, what his kids like, where he went for vacations etc.
    but yes i cherished those things .

    now i can be judged for these. but wat i think in my head, is my private space. i know that i will never cross the line, though i may actually like talking to him. i know i a mature enough to understand that i can never cheat on my H.

    eventually, the crush ended, as happens with all of them.now that v r trasferred to diff location, there is jsut no interaction. did i evr talk to him again? no. did i ever feel the need to contact him ? no
    yes i missed him for some time, but the thing went away on its own with time.

    am i immoral ? i dont know?
    & to be honest, i had my own moments of thinking: oh no, i like talking to him, i shudnt bcoz i am married.

    there are far more intimate things i talk to my girlfriends, with or without knowledge of H, i miss them too when they leave. but there are no moral questions involved.

    but am i the only married woman who has had the above experience ? arent there others ? i would like to know honestly.
     

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