Rejoinder : Were Women Better Off In The Past

bmaquarius · Jan 8, 2018

Frankly a man has it all.
Let's not be under any delusion of women being treated to apple pie in the past or present times. Life has always been unfair and difficult for women from mythology until today only that the levels vary.

Olden times the only division of labour woman knew is the perennial state of birthing labour - adding children practically every year, to the existing brood. With no birth control or choice, mortality rate was high till the last few decades. Children were hardly cared for by mothers and pretty much left to their own wits to survive in huge joint families (which continued for land holding purposes). Some learnt few family trades and skills, few others wasted themselves, some turning into proverbial black sheep in the family. Lucky few escaped to cities with some education to make a better living. The girls, were quickly disposed off in marriage by puberty only to continue the cycle of child bearing as their mothers. The fathers were rarely seen only heard perhaps, anyway there wasn't any serious parenting expected of him except, that he keep the home fires burning. Patriarchy set the tone of every transaction from buying cows, land, property, marriages or dowry, settlement of dispute, and women had little or no say, for that matter nobody asked their choice. Women on being widowed, disowned, abandoned were very soon defrauded or swindled of property and left at the mercy of relatives or to their fates, without any legal recourse.

Once, confined to their home and hearth, battling gender discrimination, domestic violence, sexual abuse, dowry death, it was a curse to be born a woman, let's not flatter ourselves that women were worshipped as the devi, it's only meant to be a figurative not real. It is only with advent of formal education, that values of gender equality and economic independence that women's liberation or legal rights made some sense.

Let's face it squarely, it was a battle of existence, at the mercy of father, to husband and later the sons, with no economic independence whatsoever, or any share in property other than a meagre stree dhan received in marriage, women slogged resigning themselves to their fate, an unenviable life with no dream kitchens or entertainment, other than some family festivities. Even visit to father's home was unwelcome however few and far. Seriously, is this something we envy.

Education brought economic independence a means to strive for equality and fight for rights, denied for so long. We have fought hard for our share of space under the sky, not to squander over some wistful thinking of a romanticized life of 18th or 19th century. Let us be proud of whatever we have achieved while continuing the struggle, for meaningful existence. East or West woman are expected to continue their duties as a mother wife homemaker while asserting themselves economically, and to abandon economic independence would sound a death knell. It would be fanciful to think of reversing the situation, because the journey is arduous.

Never look at the past for it has nothing new to offer you.We have yet a long way to go. Yes, it's natural to have self doubts about our journeys, but deeper introspection will help us to see light, and make choices objectively.

We certainly have miles to go before we rest....

GeetaKashyap · Jan 8, 2018

bmaquarius said: ↑

Frankly a man has it all.
Let's not be under any delusion of women being treated to apple pie in the past or present times. Life has always been unfair and difficult for women from mythology until today only that the levels vary.

Olden times the only division of labour woman knew is the perennial state of birthing labour - adding children practically every year, to the existing brood. With no birth control or choice, mortality rate was high till the last few decades. Children were hardly cared for by mothers and pretty much left to their own wits to survive in huge joint families (which continued for land holding purposes). Some learnt few family trades and skills, few others wasted themselves, some turning into proverbial black sheep in the family. Lucky few escaped to cities with some education to make a better living. The girls, were quickly disposed off in marriage by puberty only to continue the cycle of child bearing as their mothers. The fathers were rarely seen only heard perhaps, anyway there wasn't any serious parenting expected of him except, that he keep the home fires burning. Patriarchy set the tone of every transaction from buying cows, land, property, marriages or dowry, settlement of dispute, and women had little or no say, for that matter nobody asked their choice. Women on being widowed, disowned, abandoned were very soon defrauded or swindled of property and left at the mercy of relatives or to their fates, without any legal recourse.

Once, confined to their home and hearth, battling gender discrimination, domestic violence, sexual abuse, dowry death, it was a curse to be born a woman, let's not flatter ourselves that women were worshipped as the devi, it's only meant to be a figurative not real. It is only with advent of formal education, that values of gender equality and economic independence that women's liberation or legal rights made some sense.

Let's face it squarely, it was a battle of existence, at the mercy of father, to husband and later the sons, with no economic independence whatsoever, or any share in property other than a meagre stree dhan received in marriage, women slogged resigning themselves to their fate, an unenviable life with no dream kitchens or entertainment, other than some family festivities. Even visit to father's home was unwelcome however few and far. Seriously, is this something we envy.

Education brought economic independence a means to strive for equality and fight for rights, denied for so long. We have fought hard for our share of space under the sky, not to squander over some wistful thinking of a romanticized life of 18th or 19th century. Let us be proud of whatever we have achieved while continuing the struggle, for meaningful existence. East or West woman are expected to continue their duties as a mother wife homemaker while asserting themselves economically, and to abandon economic independence would sound a death knell. It would be fanciful to think of reversing the situation, because the journey is arduous.

Never look at the past for it has nothing new to offer you.We have yet a long way to go. Yes, it's natural to have self doubts about our journeys, but deeper introspection will help us to see light, and make choices objectively.

We certainly have miles to go before we rest....
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@bmaquarius

I agree with you.

Women had very few options so they could never let their minds perturbed in deciding or debating what was good and what was not. Every decision was left to the family heads: father, brother, mil, fil, husband and son. They were also fatalistic so they walked around like meek cows or the glorious description would be like Buddhas without a worry or a crease on their forehead. Someone once told be women of the household are not to be seen or heard! This is what some people think of as ideal womanhood! A reproductive machine, maid and slave, all bundled into one!

Today women are educated and they have more options in front of them and they are able to see clearly if the father or husband makes a mistake and they voice it. This starts a circle of tension, arguments, ....divorce!

Any day, I would not trade my present with the past. Freedom always comes with some struggle and difficulties and it is any day superior to the claustrophobic past.

Yeah, it is very stressful and taxing for women but they better accept that struggle is a part of their life and existence. My only suggestion to today's women is, use your hard earned freedom judiciously. When you are in control raise responsible children without any bias, be fair to others; both men and women, don't hold a tit for tat attitude especially in a marriage (Like just because some men are bad, don't treat every man as bad) as this will again start another vicious circle of women Vs men. We are a part of each other and not apart.

Self-doubts and fears are natural. We have to move past with confidence because DARR KE AAGE JEET HAI!

bmaquarius · Jan 8, 2018

Geetakashyap
Absolutely agree. Every voice counts, when we're moving forward.

ChennaiExpress · Jan 9, 2018

GeetaKashyap said: ↑

or the glorious description would be like Buddhas without a worry or a crease on their forehead.
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Like Meera Bai (trying to do painting of her, wish me luck!)

GeetaKashyap said: ↑

don't hold a tit for tat attitude especially in a marriage (Like just because some men are bad, don't treat every man as bad) as this will again start another vicious circle of women Vs men. We are a part of each other and not apart.
Click to expand...

This is what I struggle with. My ex would be happy to know when I am getting angry, having tit for tat attitude. Hence I have to remind myself that in this life I must be nice and open to new future.

GeetaKashyap · Jan 9, 2018

ChennaiExpress said: ↑

Like Meera Bai (trying to do painting of her, wish me luck!)

This is what I struggle with. My ex would be happy to know when I am getting angry, having tit for tat attitude. Hence I have to remind myself that in this life I must be nice and open to new future.
Click to expand...

@ChennaiExpress
All the best for your Meerabai painting. You are thinking very positively, dear. Way to go.

satchitananda · Jan 10, 2018

Agree with you too BMAquarius. Our grandmothers slogged their guts out but did not have the freedom to voice their opinion in matters of marriage, choice of husband, reproductive rights or the option of walking out of a bad marriage. Not that women today can walk out easily, but at least the option exists. They also do get at least some degree of moral support from various quarters. However, what is galling is that while everyone expects an educated wife/dil who rakes in the moolah, produces kids, brings them up perfectly, she is does not get let off the hook when it comes to living with ILs, doing seva, looking after the house ..... The men are extremely slow in catching up. Naturally, they don't want to give up the glory and privileges they have become used to.

bmaquarius · Jan 10, 2018

Satchi
Resentment began with the assertion of equality rights by women. Men were by far comfortable with docile women. Conflict grew with confidence of women. As long as women were cowlike things were fine.

satchitananda · Jan 10, 2018

True BMA. But I also wonder whether the women of yore were more at peace with themselves too. They were certainly more accepting of things. Of course, there were the occasional women who stood up really tall, but am sure their life was no bed of roses either.

Today we are caught between a rock and a hard place. Talk of economic independence, it has not brought any social liberation of any kind and the resentment and boiling certainly does us no good.

Wonder when true liberation will come our way. I do not mean a 1:1 kind of situation, but a harmonious kind of existence of the two genders with absolute equal respect for both.

Rihana · Jan 10, 2018

satchitananda said: ↑

Agree with you too BMAquarius. Our grandmothers slogged their guts out but did not have the freedom to voice their opinion in matters of marriage, choice of husband, reproductive rights or the option of walking out of a bad marriage. Not that women today can walk out easily, but at least the option exists. They also do get at least some degree of moral support from various quarters. However, what is galling is that while everyone expects an educated wife/dil who rakes in the moolah, produces kids, brings them up perfectly, she is does not get let off the hook when it comes to living with ILs, doing seva, looking after the house ..... The men are extremely slow in catching up. Naturally, they don't want to give up the glory and privileges they have become used to.
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The woman is educated and earning. Why then does she get into a marriage where she will expected to put up with all the unfair things listed above? Agreed that not all true nature of the guy and his family can be known prior to marriage, but efforts can be made to choose a man/family who will not expect all that from a working DIL.

When women are educated and earning and want modern thinking partners, they and their families have to also be modern enough to look outside their usual circles for a husband. Be open to marrying without horoscope matching, different caste, different mother-tongue.. if needed.

bmaquarius said: ↑

Satchi
Resentment began with the assertion of equality rights by women. Men were by far comfortable with docile women. Conflict grew with confidence of women. As long as women were cowlike things were fine.
Click to expand...

I'd say resentment began when women married into families with different thinking than their own. A confident woman deserves a confident man and should settle for no less.

satchitananda said: ↑

...
Wonder when true liberation will come our way. I do not mean a 1:1 kind of situation, but a harmonious kind of existence of the two genders with absolute equal respect for both.
Click to expand...

True liberation will come when a woman marries a man whose thinking matches hers in issues that matter, such as avoiding joint family living in early years of marriage, getting to know the man well enough to know his views on his/her money, and how he treats her parents.

satchitananda · Jan 10, 2018

Waiting for the day. Even today we see and hear young girls saying 'my parents know what is best for me' or 'my parents forced me to get married'. It certainly makes one shudder. However, even after taking all those steps there are no guarantees, as we see in many of the threads on this site - even so called 'love marriages' take on a different hue after marriage. Just choosing one's spouse is far from enough. Unless some huge social changes take place, nothing is really going to change.