Gabfest: And Thereby Hangs A Tail

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Cimorene, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    I couldn't find any information on the origins but I know that certain semi-classical forms of music like thumri, kajri and savan have a lot of songs about the rain and rimjhim or jhirjhir is a commom refrain. Women have been singing some of these songs for generations. Also these words are not exclusive to Hindi. They are found in Bangla, Assamese, Nepali and many dialects of the Hindi belt. Considering the time it takes for a word to diffuse into a language I'd say it could be a few hundred years old if not older!
     
  2. Iravati

    Iravati Platinum IL'ite

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    I like fish in general.
    Also, I am on a fish-fest this week. Okra and aubergine and dried fish.

    upload_2018-6-15_18-5-25.png
     
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  3. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    @Iravati

    Yes, you have the memory of an elephant. The plan to return to India is strong and enforceable subject to a) full-retirement (well, what is full retirement?), b) my son not needing my help in the US for pursuing his patent, c) healthcare remain as difficult as it is now, d) Social security doesn't become bankrupt for another 20 years, e) US dollar remaining stronger for a longer period of time, f) my son agreeing to visit us with his family (whenever he gets married) in India at least once in 2-4 years, etc.

    It is a question of whether an estimated $2,000 social security in the US or Rs 1,30,000 a month income gives better purchasing power. I am turning 65 next year which means my insurance premium drops down from $1,000 a month to $65 a month. Even if I take a supplemental insurance for $200 to $250, still it would save approximately $650 to $700. My mother-in-law is in Green card now but there is no insurance other than hospitalization insurance that I get from the United Kingdom. In another 2 years, she will be eligible for Medicare, even if she had not worked in the US before, for a cost of approximately $400, leaving only my wife still in the Mid 50s. I will have to watch my wife's health, her diet and her walk to make sure she doesn't trip and fall. If everything goes well, I will join MAGA movement as otherwise I am inclined to join MIGA.

    What have I done with all my savings all these 23 years in the US? They are all on long-term investments, one can be cashed after retirement (technically it is 59.5 years of age) and another after the age of 70. The home I live is mortgage free but I would like to leave all of these values in the US only to be used for emergencies, if not to be inherited by my son. Financial planning is to leave all the assets in the US in the US only and keep all the assets in India, in India only. The US assets can be used by my son after our life, if needed, and if he doesn't find a need for it and becomes very wealthy in his own rights, then, it is his option to create a trust of the insignificant wealth we have created and help people in need.

    Now, let us get back to your questions. Other than selecting the government through my vote, I am not prohibited from doing anything in India with the OCI card. I have asked several Indians and all of them uniformly told me that an OCI card holder can't have an Aadhar card. Finally, I decided to check with the government website and it clearly states that NRI/OCI can take their passport/greencard/OCI card, etc. to a local office to prove their identity and get an Aadhar card. Once we get the Aadhar card and begin living in India, your bank account, domestic power, telephone/Broadband, Mobile SIM, etc. can be easy. Once we live for more than 182 days in India, we achieve a Resident but Not Ordinarily Resident status under the Income Tax Act making us liable to pay taxes on global income. As US and India have double taxation relief, taxes paid in one country will be credited by the other. For a foreign citizen, sale of any assets or any income should be subjected to a high tax-deducted at source. It is the only inconvenience financially and one needs to claim it back if it is excessive. Unless we are planning to become a farmer, the move to India should be pretty much straight forward.

    Now, people scare me to death about infrastructure and other living conditions we take for granted in the US. My answer to that, "I have lived 41 years in India before migrating to the US and I still go to India every year. I have not found that unmanageable.

    Lastly, the objective is to give back to the community that gave education and ability to make a living anywhere in the world. Here in the US, we have done a lot of service activity to the community but when I was young, giving back to the community is only a concept in paper.

    Viswa
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  4. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    Now I understand the importance of taking decisions using Gut instinct.:yikes: No one can ever question my intelligence.

    Viswa
     
  5. Iravati

    Iravati Platinum IL'ite

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    This is very informative. I have to read the post again and get back. Will research/homework bit more on your pointers before beseeching you. Thank you so much for the lowdown. Will inquire again (soon) with my piled on doubts.
     
  6. Iravati

    Iravati Platinum IL'ite

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    Here's my advanced theory on 'rim jhim' origin. Dude, suit yourself!

    Rim - would have originated in Persian/Urdu to denote sky/firmament/vault. There would be hundreds of words to denote the sky in that language and finding a close proximate to "rim" would not be difficult.

    Jhim- was hacked from "Jal", that is, "water".

    Began as,

    Rim Jal (sky water, water from above)
    Rim Jal
    Rim Jal
    Rim Jil --> scribe copies wrong
    Rim Jil
    Rim Jil
    Rim Jil --> perplex, what is jil, scribe invents rhyme
    Rim Jhim
    Rim Jhim

    Fudged into poetic rhyme as 'rim-jhim'. Easy-peasy, upward imagination is all you need on lack of a reliable etymological trace.
     
  7. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    Unlikely. My guess is that the origin lies in musical license. I would be surprised if the word appeared in text first. I imagine that if it appears in text at all, it would be an appropriation after its origins in music or poetry. Neither 'rim' nor 'jhim' sounds remotely like rain. 'Jhirjhir' is a lot closer, but it probably rhymes with far less versatility.
     
  8. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    I thought that was my point. Saavan is the time of Teej and Gauri pooja. It was the time women went back to their parental homes. In the villages these were celebratory occasions. Women got together and still do to this day to pray, fast and sing songs about the monsoons and their lives. The thumris, dadras and folk music of UP, Rajasthan and Bihar have been passed down for generations. The word appears in many of these songs. As far as text goes, it appears in late 19th century Hindi poetry and in this Rabindranath Tagore song written in 1886. So it's been in literary use for at least a century and a half.
     
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  9. Iravati

    Iravati Platinum IL'ite

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    Elaborate further as Slavoj Žižek does in “The Pervert’s guide to ideology”. What are you hinting at? The prevalent musical instrument of that time to imply rain in literary dramatisation sounded to the ear like (onomo-) “rim jhim” rather than somone’s verbal imprint of the same sound through direct and natural rain.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
  10. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

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    Indeed. I was agreeing with you.
    I can believe that (a) 'rim-jhim' might be more prevalent in music and (b) 'jhir-jhir' is another onomatopoeic version. I know nothing about either beyond the songs we are discussing. I would like to have some 'jhir-jhir' song references if/when you think of any. I would also like to hear about additional rain sounds in any language.

    What I was trying to say was that, were I compelled to reach for rain sounds for an essay, 'rim-jhim' would not come to mind. It certainly has a ring to it in verse and music. In other words, rim-jhim is more musical but less 'realistic'. 'Jhir-jhir' is closer to the real sound, but may be harder to rhyme with sawan, mausam etc.

    Ira's fanciful conjecture about transcriptional mutation from "jal" is entertaining, but not persuasive in the absence of evidence.

    I mangled my post #1307 above. I intended to format it as below:
    Unlikely. My guess is that the origin lies in musical license. I would be surprised if the word appeared in text first. I imagine that if it appears in text at all, it would be an appropriation after its origins in music or poetry.
    Neither 'rim' nor 'jhim' sounds remotely like rain. 'Jhirjhir' is a lot closer, but it probably rhymes with far less versatility.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
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