An Ethical Dilemma - What Would You Do?

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Gauri03, Oct 31, 2018.

  1. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    13,034
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    Recently I read an interesting paper on AI ethics and wondered what the IL community thought of some of these problems. More on the paper later.

    Here's a famous thought experiment in ethics called the trolley problem. There are infinite variations of this problem. I'm starting with the basic scenario.
    09-trolley.w700.h467.2x.jpg

    You are standing near train tracks next to a lever that controls a switch. You see a runaway trolley moving toward five tied-up people lying on the tracks. You could pull the lever, and redirect the trolley onto a side track and save the five people on the main track. However, there is a single person tied up on the side track.

    1. Would you pull the lever and save the five people? Sacrifice one to save many?
    2. Or would you do nothing and let those five people die?

    Is it morally more justifiable to take action or do nothing at all?

    These are tough questions and there are no easy or correct answers. You can answer or simply state your thoughts without answering any. What would you do?
     
    Loading...

  2. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    13,034
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    Suppose you had more information, would it change your answer?

    Case A: Five children vs one adult who is the sole provider of his family
    Case B: Five everyday people versus a Nobel winning scientist who will eventually cure cancer
    Case C: Five criminal vs one law-abiding person
    Case D: Five childless individuals vs single mother of three kids
    Case E: Five nosy relatives vs your MIL

    Is such a subjective case by case analysis ethical? Is there a universally right answer?
     
  3. Sinant

    Sinant Silver IL'ite

    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    218
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Female
    Hi Gauri,
    I think I can take a guess on the paper’s topic. It might be on the lines of AI eating up many many jobs ?!
    Well, my answer to your Q would be firm only for case C, I would let the trolley be on the track where there are 5 criminals. In all other cases, it’s really hard to decide.
    Awaitng interesting conversations ahead.

    Sinant
     
    Gauri03 likes this.
  4. Amulet

    Amulet IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Female
    Do Nothing. [no additional information required]

    Day of the Dead (known as Día de Muertos in Spanish) is celebrated in Mexico between October 31st and November 2nd. On this holiday, Mexicans remember and honor their deceased loved ones. It's not a gloomy or morbid occasion, rather it is a festive and colorful holiday celebrating the lives of those who have passed on. Mexicans visit cemeteries, decorate the graves and spend time there, in the presence of their deceased friends and family members. They also make elaborately decorated altars (called ofrendas) in their homes to welcome the spirits. Your Guide to Mexico's Day of the Dead

    A visitor might wonder why is it such a celebratory, happy day. The natives answer that it is better to be dead than to suffer a life of torment, struggle, and misery.
     
    Sinant and Gauri03 like this.
  5. agirlneedsaname

    agirlneedsaname Senior IL'ite

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Female
    IMHO not taking action is also a choice. I will choose the lesser evil in all except case E. That is personal because my family member is involved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    Gauri03 likes this.
  6. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    5,628
    Likes Received:
    11,612
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    Some initial (quick) thoughts...
    I read a recent study too that concluded decisions vary based on social and economic factors across regions.

    I wonder, if time and place mattered and if cultural thoughts (morals from epics, being taught since childhood) influenced our decisions (at least in the context of Indian mindsets).

    To think... Rama was just and lawful (to the maximum) while Krishna allowed some leaning and adjustments if it meant 'greater good' in the end. To be entirely a Rama or a Krishna in our lives, is, in turn, a trolley problem set forth for us? How do you want to or will you act? This again brings me back to the #Time&Place idea. Bhishma, Drona, and Karna had all the powers in the world to have stopped Draupati from being drawn to the dice court. They must have been in the trolley problem situation themselves; whether to stand by dharma? or duty? or personal feelings? - to do the right thing or to serve the ruling king or take the side of a best friend in the case of Karna. They chose to do nothing (to stop) which btw is a valid option though ethically may be controversial. To each their own morals and it's subjective, but did the cause of 'greater good' play any role? To what extent? Or it's about #Time&Place indeed after all?
    Today they are that, tomorrow the Nobel scientist may discover the cure and sell it to the enemy instead. Likewise, the five ordinary people could become Nobel winners themselves tomorrow. #Time&Place...?

    Maybe irrelevant, just some random wonderings. :oops:
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    HazelPup, sindmani, Urmila and 2 others like this.
  7. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    13,034
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    @Sinant Thanks for the response. Your guess is quite accurate! This is about AIs doing human jobs, more precisely making decisions for us. The paper published in Nature, deals with self driving cars having to make life and death decisions on the road. It is a fascinating work based on 4 years of data gathered via an online experiment called the Moral Machine. Instead of a human choosing to the flip the lever, think of the Tesla autopilot on a crash course with a crowd, having to choose whether to run over a bunch of pedestrians or swerve and hit one pedestrian. Personally I felt that thinking in terms of a car made it easier to understand the true implications of the question. Once you remove the personal moral complicity from the equation, most of us will agree that the loss of one life is better than losing many. Of course the dilemma persists once we add details about the affected individuals. We just have a harder time accepting the facts when the onus is on us to make that decision. It's a very human thing to not want blood on our conscience but would we expect our machines to make the same choices?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  8. sokanasanah

    sokanasanah IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,959
    Likes Received:
    6,862
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Male
    The trolley problem, an old chestnut though it is, has had a bit of a revival in the context of AI decision-making for autonomous vehicles. What criteria ought an AI to employ in choosing between unpalatable alternatives?

    A 'right to life' variant of the problem is the following: in the event of a fire, would you save one infant or a freezer with five thousand IVF embryos? :yikes: Most people are pretty consistent on this one!!:lol:

    Here's a poll to add to your poll.
    In case you haven't come across it already, here's an essay arguing that it's essentially a distraction.:icon_pc:

    PS: Hmmm ... looks like our posts crossed!
     
    Urmila and Gauri03 like this.
  9. Amulet

    Amulet IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    Trophy Points:
    408
    Gender:
    Female
    Thanks for that backstory.
    Last week I saw a picture of central american immigrants sleeping on the sleeper-ties of two adjacent railway tracks. And that is exactly like the thought-expt. On the left track there was a pale-skin person with a smart phone. On the right track every one is brown-skinned..... like a thought-expt. designed for answers from a select demographic .......and so on.
    Tesla's self-drive car deciding who to kill ? When brakes were to fail in a Tesla, they ought to design the car to have all of the four wheels splay, (like a downhill skier splaying his skis inward to come to a stop at the bottom of the hill) so that the car stops faster than ever.
     
    Gauri03 likes this.
  10. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

    Messages:
    5,628
    Likes Received:
    11,612
    Trophy Points:
    445
    Gender:
    Female
    Maybe the cars should be made with an extra pair of (foldable) metal wings! Saves us the troubles of the dilemmas to wonder ponder annnd... all lives too! Push the lever and zooom overhead! Ravana 'vimana' style! :lol: (I haven't come out of the #mythology hangover yet I guess!) :facepalm:

    Hey, flying cars ain't just a dream anymore! :angel:
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
    HazelPup, Gauri03 and GeetaKashyap like this.

Share This Page