Why should we not go near God, during periods?

Discussion in 'Queries on Religion & Spirituality' started by sanju, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. Lili

    Lili New IL'ite

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    Re: Y Shoulnt We Go Near God During Periods

    Yes, In Kerala, in aplce called Chengannur, there is a huge Siva temple where Devi is also installed. The Devi shows signs of Menstruating and the festival starts from taht day.Iam connected to the place and so I can confirm this. The festival is called "Tripoothu aarattu". Sometimes this occurence can be 4 times ina year and each time the festival is celebrated with special ceremonies and the Devi idol is taken and placed in a another room away fromSiva's idol. Young girls carry "thalam" to welcome the Devi and the idol is taken to the river for a bath everyday. Every night until menstruation stops an old er lady sits with the idol and the cloth which is soked by morning is owned by the lasy. this is considered very auspicioius for those who get a chance to do it. My aunt too has obtained the cloth and I have seen the stains on it.. So I cant deny this occurence.

    Coming to going near the altar during periods has different explanations..maybe the science behind it is known to our ancestors. But we can continue with all our prayers from Gayatri mantra to others even if we keep away from the altar.
    Lili
     
  2. srinivasan_vanaja

    srinivasan_vanaja Gold IL'ite

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    Re: Y Shoulnt We Go Near God During Periods

    Dear Aaurashi,

    I appreciate your thorough study over my post.

    You have quoted few sentences from my post and have explained your views on those.

    But you have forgot to quote the very essence of my post "that it is a reward" given by the Lord Himself to us to take rest from all kinds of activities. You may consider this as an exemption too. I have also mentioned that "no man get this".

    It is up to you to accept or refuse the reward.

    If you accept it all my explanations holds good and if you refuse, you are following your own methods and explanations.

    I have also mentioned if at all you want to enter the temple no one is going to stop you.

    When you take a pregnant lady - it is good for a pregnant lady to engage herself in divine activities as it is good for her child and the generations through her. Her physical weakness is no way related to that of a menstruating woman. Thats why our elders have not stopped the pregnant ladies from entering the temple.

    It is not the discrimination against women, it is a reward.

    I do agree widow remarriage and sati are great reforms in the society. It is a life and death matter. These are deeply connected with the human feelings or women's liberation.

    What we are discussing now is something connected with divinity. You can always enter the temple after those 5 days.

    The girl and grandmother incident applies to only their own generation.

    But this practice is hugely, widely observed by almost all the religions.

    For example a Muslim lady is objected from reading Qua-ran during her periods. Followed in Judaism, Jainism, Christianity etc., even now.

    Moreover this rule is mentioned in Vedas too. Said in Mahabaratha too. You can question long held beliefs, but the origin is very strong - it is from Vedas.

    I too had questions like you earlier. Did lot of homework to get the clarity.
     
  3. Shobanag

    Shobanag Bronze IL'ite

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    Re: Y Shoulnt We Go Near God During Periods

    Very interesting discussion going on here. Personally, I do not believe in this - this is a natural process in our bodies. If one feels weak, then take rest - not just from the temple but also from other physical acitivities. Impure because you have your periods?? If you believe in this custom and do not want to go to the temple, that is fine and it is totally each person's wish or choice.

    Finally, I have never heard of Christianity having such restrictions - I have talked to my friends here - about this topic - as far they know, no such restrictions are imposed here and they were unaware of such a custom! If the Christians in India are following this - this just goes to prove that it is a tradition that they have adopted - not handed down through "religion".
     
  4. srinivasan_vanaja

    srinivasan_vanaja Gold IL'ite

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    Re: Y Shoulnt We Go Near God During Periods

    Dear Shobana,

    Even Christians had this tradition. Now this may have diminished. You just type in google search and find out. You will get many results for this tradition being adopted in Christianity too.
     
  5. Lalitha Shivaguru

    Lalitha Shivaguru Platinum IL'ite

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    Re: Y Shoulnt We Go Near God During Periods

    Dear All,

    Sorry to interrupt ! Have been going thru this .Thought I will also share again.

    Regarding chanting of shlokas/mantras during this time, our guru used to say that the soul does not have any discrimination. If at all we want to chant these mantras then it should be done wthin the mind you should not use your tongue also, then it can be done. When we are chanting, then the physical body is involved where cleanliness has to be maintained as these mantras has strong vibrations and should be uttered in a specific style and metre.

    Another issue is though most of the households, the ladies are allowed to do cooking etc but in few traditional families we do still follow the age old custom of making the lady sit in a corner with separate plates, glasses, bed etc. She is not supposed to mingle with the rest of the family which I personally feel as absurd. Even educated people residing in a foreign country also follow. (eg. my own family) I do not have any choices, i am not able to convince my dear hubby nor his parents. Hence, we have to follow though personally we do not beleive. I wish only my two daughters should change during their time. God willing !:confused: Why cannot people understant the natural phenomena ?????Rant Any suggestions to help me?

    Luv
    Lalitha
     
  6. Blondie

    Blondie Bronze IL'ite

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    Dear Shobana,

    Christians follow several ways (i am searching for the right word..sects??) like mormons, baptists, methodists (here southern methodists differ from other methodists) , protestants, orthodox catholics, roman catholics, greek catholics and a hundred(N) others just walk down any street in midwest and you will know what the 'N' is. Though they all are unified in demonizing hindus (personal opinion no harm intended please) they follow diffferent practices.

    I am confident in saying that majority of christians(90%) do not have any such taboos (so you had the impression this is not in chritianity) But the very orthodox like catholics (majority in india) do have these from ancient times.
     
  7. Blondie

    Blondie Bronze IL'ite

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    This is not in response to Senthan's but stemmed from inner belief that the rules were made by men who had no clue about what they were talking about :) (and were in fear of the unknown).

    [There are many religious leaders giving scientific reasons for some of our customs/rituals now-a-days. But I don't know whether any of them gave a reason for the question of this thread. I don't know why - it may be that the common people might not have basic knowledge to understand anything even if they explain the reason or simply it is not necessary or it would be dangerous to explain the reason - or something else]


    I had dug up some very old articles(70’s) in TIME magazine which might throw light on why the most life giving event in women’s life is a taboo in all cultures:

    <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 159pt; HEIGHT: 79.5pt" href="http://www.time.com/time" type="#_x0000_t75" o:button="t" alt=""><v:imagedata o:href="http://img.timeinc.net/time/i/logo_time_print.gif" src="file:///C:\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape>
    <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:date Month="2" Day="23" Year="1976">Monday, <st1:date Month="2" Day="23" Year="1976" ls="trans">Feb. 23, 1976</st1:date></st1:date>
    Culture and the Curse

    Renaissance writers insisted it destroyed grass, tarnished mirrors and dissolved asphalt. The sight of it, Australian aborigines believe, can turn a man's hair gray. Until 1967, campers at <st1:place><st1:placeName>Glacier</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType>National Park</st1:placeType></st1:place> were warned that its odor can incite bears to attack.


    It is menstrual blood, and it is the source and symbol of a universal taboo. In most cultures, menstruating women are shunned as dangerous or vaguely contaminated. Throughout history, they have been isolated in menstrual huts, forced through purification rituals and sometimes beaten if they ventured into male company during their periods. Exactly why is a mystery. Some think the taboo arose from a general repugnance of having sex with a bloodily discharging woman. Others see it as caused by primitive man's sense of awe—and fear—at the sight of blood that does not clot and signifies neither illness nor death. Freud thought man made the taboo because bleeding women awakened his dread of castration. Karl Menninger saw the taboo as male anxiety over heightened female emotionality and sexuality during periods.


    Psychic Slap. In her new book Menstruation and Menopause (Knopf; $10), Feminist Paula Weideger goes a step beyond Menninger. To her the taboo represents man's historic fear and envy of woman and a desire to keep her from gaining equal status. Argues Weideger, an M.A. in psychology and a staff associate of <st1:City><st1:place>New York City</st1:place></st1:City>'s Women's Health Forum: "The taboo fills certain psychic and economic needs of men. It is alive, it is flourishing."

    Weideger's book is the latest sign that menstruation is a fast-rising issue among feminists, who contend that the taboo teaches women self-hatred and worthlessness. Today, some Jewish women pass on the taboo with a hard slap to the face of a daughter at her first menstruation. Most other mothers, says Weideger, deliver the slap in psychic form, teaching daughters to feel shame about a natural process (the periodic shedding, brought on by a drop in hormonal production, of the lining of the womb when the ovum has not been fertilized).
    What of the depression, cramps and pains accompanying menstruation? The traditional explanation is that they are caused by hormonal changes. In 1970 Senator Hubert H. Humphrey's personal physician, Dr. Edgar Herman, created a flap by announcing that "raging hormonal influences" made women unfit for high-pressure jobs. The most impressive work on the effects of menstruation—by Endocrinologist Dr. Katharina Dalton of <st1:City><st1:place>London</st1:place></st1:City>'s <st1:place><st1:placeType>University</st1:placeType> <st1:placeType>College</st1:placeType> <st1:placeType>Hospital</st1:placeType></st1:place>—seems to lend plausibility to the Herman thesis. In studies over a 20-year period, Dr. Dalton found that the grades of female pupils showed a 15% drop when exams fell during days of "premenstrual tension." She also reported that about half of female job absenteeism, suicides, police arrests, traffic accidents and admissions to mental hospitals occurred in the four days before and four days after the onset of menstruation. Her conclusion: the physical changes of menstruation can affect judgment and slow reaction time.
    <!--pagebreak-->Yet, Author Weideger suggests that many of the troubles attributed to menstruation can actually be traced to the taboo. The idea is not new. Some 50 years ago, Anthropologist Margaret Mead observed that in <st1:place>Samoa</st1:place>, where the menstrual taboo is mild, discomfort during periods is slight. The idea of severe cramps and pain, she wrote, "struck all Samoan women as bizarre when it was described to them."

    Now younger feminist researchers are making the same point. Some argue that the <st1:City><st1:place>Dalton</st1:place></st1:City> data merely show that many women have absorbed the mythology of the menstrual taboo. Others challenge the interpretation of the data. For instance, Barnard Psychologist Mary Brown Parlee points out that stress can hasten a period; therefore, many menstruating women who do poorly on exams may be victims of stress, not menstruation. Concludes Parlee: "We believe that hormonal change brings certain sensory change, but there is no scientific proof that the hormones make any difference in a woman's behavior."

    Three women psychologists at <st1:place><st1:placeName>Pennsylvania</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType>State</st1:placeType> <st1:placeType>University</st1:placeType></st1:place> found no significant difference in the amount of stress reported by eleven men and 22 women (half of them on the Pill) over a 35-day period. Psychologist Barbara Sommer of the <st1:place><st1:placeType>University</st1:placeType> of <st1:placeName>California</st1:placeName></st1:place> at <st1:City><st1:place>Davis</st1:place></st1:City> reports that 29 women she studied had increased positive feelings around ovulation time, but no increased negative feelings before menstruation.

    Pittsburgh Psychologist Randi Koeske contends that the culture created and now reinforces the stereotype of premenstrual irritability by overlooking women's positive feelings and focusing on negative ones. Her advice to women: "Learn to identify premenstrual physical changes as irrelevant to emotion." Some women add several pounds of fluid because of hormone changes. If so, says Koeske, "Say 'Water retention makes my tear ducts feel full,' not 'I am depressed and about to cry.' "

    In a questionnaire study of 298 unmarried women, Psychologist Karen Paige of the <st1:place><st1:placeType>University</st1:placeType> of <st1:placeName>California</st1:placeName></st1:place> at <st1:City><st1:place>Davis</st1:place></st1:City> found that religious traditions had an influence on menstrual troubles. Among Jewish women, those who accepted the biblical ban on sexual intercourse during menstruation generally had the worst periods. Catholic women who saw motherhood as their goal had more menstrual troubles than Catholic women who were willing to pursue careers and childless marriage. Similarly, in a door-to-door survey of 1,000 men and women in northern <st1:State><st1:place>California</st1:place></st1:State>, Psychologist Paige found that those who celebrated the role of wife and mother were most likely to accept the menstrual taboo. Her conclusion: "Adherence to menstrual taboos should decrease as the importance of the family and woman's role as child producer decrease."

    Cultural Cure. Statements like that have raised suspicions that the menstruation issue is just one more doctrinaire attack by working feminists on women who are housewives and mothers. "All we know for sure," says Psychologist Pauline Bart of the University of Illinois Medical School, "is that cultural expectations play a role in many menstrual problems. Beyond that it's all cloudy."

    <!--pagebreak-->Many greet the new menstrual research with skepticism. Dr. William D. Walden, clinical assistant professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the <st1:place><st1:placeName>Cornell</st1:placeName> <st1:placeName>Medical</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType>Center</st1:placeType></st1:place> is "very wary of blaming everything on psychological problems." Weideger herself says "not all cases of menstrual or menopausal discomfort will be dramatically reduced or 'cured' by changes in attitude."

    What Weideger and other feminists want most of all is to end the taboo. One suggestion: a party for a daughter at her first menstruation. The taboo, Weideger insists, is based on "fears held by men and directed toward women. It is time for women to reclaim menstruation and define for ourselves how we feel about it."

    • Find this article at:
    Culture and the Curse - TIME


    to be continued in next post
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2007
  8. Shobanag

    Shobanag Bronze IL'ite

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    I had talked to my fellow Catholic friends here who had never heard of this - and that was the reason for my comment.
     
  9. Blondie

    Blondie Bronze IL'ite

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    Setting aside all the feminist crap aside popular in those days (feminism is totally out nowadays, women do not need to have any isms, just be themselves) in the above article,

    Senthan quoted
    [would like to tell one incident that my mother told me. This happened during my grand-father's time. One of my grand-father's friend called him to the temple when they sponsored a special abishekam and puja in a Perumal temple. When my grand-father and the puja sponsors were near the sanctum sanctorum, my grand-father seemed to be having a vision of Thirumal showing two fingers with His hand. Seeing my grand-father's strange state, the people around him asked whether he was ok and what is the matter. My grand-father was trying to be normal and was telling them that he thought in two days there might be rain as there was no rain for long time. When he was just telling this, a cobra came out from the sanctum sanctorum and on the way it was dancing. Then my grand-father told that Thirumal does n't want to have the abishekam and pujas today. Let us do it another day. Then he told the sponsor to ask the ladies at their home for the reason. When the sponsor went home and asked the ladies in their home, they came to know that one of the lady was having period (it was second day). Ignoring that, she participated in preparing the food etc for the abishekam. It also rained second day from that incident.]

    The above incident as reported by him has happened in his grandfather’s time. Assuming that might be >50 years back, even after half a century these old fashioned notions have not gone out is a very sad thing. And the boldfaced lines in the article published in 70’s are still to come true (though we did celebrate the 1<SUP>st</SUP> rajaswala ceremony just for the purpose mentioned in there i.e to express pride in our daughter's womanhood not shame. )

    The story behind Rushi Panchami takes the cake in emotionally blackmailing the women into subjugation.

    This is from the Swaminarayan web site http://www.swaminarayan.info/Festivals/festivaldetails.asp?FestivalID=4

    Rushi Panchmi


    “No women shall touch any persons, clothes or utensils for three days during her menstrual cycle. On the forth day she may do so after having a purifying bath” Shikshapatri shlok 174.

    The above Shikshapatri shlok is applicable to all ladies of our religion. If the above is not observed it is classed as a great sin. During these three days women are forbidden to touch even other ladies who too are on their rajaswala (menstrual cycle).

    The reason for observing the three days of not touching goes back to the time of Indra Dev who after killing a Brahmin distributed the sin between 4 elements – one of them being Women.

    Should a lady mistakenly touch anyone, that person should immediately have a bath to purify themselves.

    Any sin/mistake which results from not following the Rajaswala Dharma can be erased by observing the ‘Rushi Panchmi’ vratt.

    Rushi Panchami Vratt came about as a result of a lady who did not follow her rajaswala dharma. In her house when her husband, relatives and family members were present she sat aside from everyone and everything. When her family was away in the field she would enter the house and touch things freely. She would eat whatever she wanted and move things around and touch clothes kitchen utensils etc.

    When it was time for her family to return home in the evening she went and sat afar again, as if she were still observing her rajaswala dharma.

    As a result of her sins when she died her next birth was that of a female dog and her husband was born as a bull. Through no fault of his own, the husband had to suffer for the sin committed by his wife. Fate took its course and they were both born into their original home. The couple’s son, who now lived in the house, threw left over food for the dog to eat daily and the bull was attached to a plough and made to work on the field all day.

    On the date of Bhadarvo sud pancham the bull was in the field and it was the time when the crops were beginning to grow. To stop the bull eating the crops, the son tied some material around the bull’s mouth. This way the bull was made to work with the cloth tied around his mouth the whole day in the burning heat. Coming home in the evening the son forgot to remove the material and just threw some grass for the bull to eat while he went inside for his own supper. The bull, after ploughing the field from sunrise to sunset was hungry and thirsty. He stood by the grass looking at it longingly but how could he eat? His mouth was still tied up.

    The son came outside into the front garden and fell asleep on the bed after eating.

    On that same day, whilst the son had been on the field his wife had gone to fetch some water after making some milk porridge. A snake had appeared in the house and put its fangs in the porridge making it poisonous. The dog saw all this and realised that the porridge would now be poisoned. If the son, his wife and children ate this then they would surely die.

    When the wife returned, the dog put her mouth into the porridge on purpose to save the family as it meant the porridge would now have to be thrown away. Seeing this the wife became angry – she picked up a baton used to wash clothes and started beating the dog. She beat her so hard that the dog’s back legs broke, her spine was smashed and her face covered in blood. Wailing in pain she managed to scramble outside where she collapsed near the gate.

    At <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:time Minute="0" Hour="0">midnight</st1:time> the bull looked at the dog and started crying. He cried “as a result of your sins I too am suffering. Think about what’s happening to us. The whole day I have been ploughing the fields putting all my strength into the work and look at me now. I have food in front of myself and yet I cannot eat! This offence which I am being tortured for is not mine but yours! As you didn’t follow your rajaswala dharma I too am having to suffer.”

    The dog looked at the bull and said “What can I do? I too am in anguish. To save our family from the poisoned porridge I put my mouth in it. The beating I got was such that my legs are broken, my spine is broken in several places and I cannot even stand up without excruciating agony.”

    The son, who had been asleep in the front garden awoke when hearing this conversation between the dog and the bull. He was astonished. Who was this talking at this time of night? Looking around him he found that it was the bull and the dog. Listening carefully, he realised that these were his very own mother and father. Look at their state now! He decided to help release them from the torment of his mother’s sins and went in search for someone who could show him the way.

    Roaming the forests, months passed. Finally he found a rushi (sage) and told him the story of his mother and fathers fate. Hearing this the rushi said,

    “When Bhadarva Sud Pancham comes, that day you will have to do upvas (fast). Tell your wife to do it too. The next morning give some alms to the mandir and to Bhramins. Doing this vratt, your mother and father will achieve ‘uddhar’ (release from the sin).”

    From that day forth, Bhadarva Sud Pancham has been known as Rushi Panchmi.

    On this day ladies should observe the vratt. If some sin is committed unknowingly during the rajaswala then it is erased by this vratt

     
  10. Blondie

    Blondie Bronze IL'ite

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    A very learned Shri Bhojaraja Dwivedi in his book titled “Scientific Basis Of Hindu Beliefs” pontifies the following (google book search pages 59, 60) as verified facts (attaching pageshots as thumbnails since pasting them here in the message body did not work)
     

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