Why is woman asked to compromise.......scientific reasons to this, if any....

BeeAmma....

Yes, sadistic people exist in all cultures. But I feel certain culture's let them carry out their bad behavior more easily than other cultures. What is wrong in trying to change our culture a little bit for the better? Really, who cares if West is ten times better or worse than India... why can't we just accept the fact that some things in India aren't good and need to change? For exmaple, a violent person in America will probably eventually end up in jail, but a violent person in some other parts of the world will become a terrorist leader or find some other venue to exercise his violent tendencies, and might never go to jail because "that's just the way things are" in that part of the world. Same way in the West, over interfering parents will probably be called out on their bad behavior or isolated by their families, whereas in India lot of people will shout out about "family values" and giving them a pass because "they are elders". So, bad people exist everywhere, but problems arise when we let certain bad behaviors become acceptable in our societies.

I think some parts of the West are better than our culture. So why can't we just pick and chose some of it's good aspects and use it to fix some of the broken parts in our own? Throughout history, society has changed and evolved in the hopes of getting better... why can't we want that too?

 

Hi,

JMO - I feel this thread is beginning to divert in terms of understanding why X culture allows and grooms women to compromise and Y culture does not allow that? While it is insightful to know that, it would not help.

It would be more understanding if the women here, can write what influenced their own compromises. For example, a interfering MIL could have made you compromise a decision. Most women compromise for kids - well being, education etc. Although one may not find these any "compromising" ( which has a negative shade of losing), it is a good exercise to know why the feminine mind thinks this way. After all, that could be possibly scientific.

In my opinion - irrespective of which culture I am exposed to, my upbringing affects my compromises. If I agree to a decision, or disagree it is a direct relation to the way I have been treated/ seen to be treated/ heard of/ read about that situation before. In my home, both me and my brother have to do the dishes post dinner on a weekly timetable basis. My cousins may find it irksome to see a final year grad guy ( my bro) doing dishes. But my mom, made sure it was the habit since the time we were kids. I study and score. He does the same. I do dishes thrice a week. He does it thrice. With this upbringing, I would expect support from my future husband on chores and not compromise my life by doing everything under the sun. Upbringing is influenced by a culture, but it is not nation/religion/family specific now days in India( at least majorly - once again, there can be exceptions)

Arch

 

Archana,

OP has not presented a problem that needs to be resolved,-- I am not sure that we are doing her a disservice.

Many things that happen today are a result of a lot of cumulative events from the past. Why is it not helpful to understand the big picture? Why would we not want to understand the entire world to gain a better understanding of the various factors that can affect an individual? I very much think that a wider understanding of different peoples helps us understand even local issues better.

In India currently you have a woman as a leader of majority party(sonia gandhi), you have an indian woman as a defense secretary(nirupama rao), we have a woman president(pratibha patil), we have had women chief ministers. We have so many women studying sciences, engineering, medicine, law....i really do not think that we are doing all that bad.

In terms of secular attitudes, we have a christian leader of majority party, we have had muslim presidents, we have a sikh prime minister in a hindu majority country-- it says something about the people. Can you tell me 1 another country where this has happened?

I think we tend to revel solely on the ills and do not see the big picture. It is sad that we are unable to see the good things that exist in our country.

 

We see it! We know it! But all that stuff came about because people wanted it and pursued it! India has come far, but let it come further even! Why stop improving just because India has some 'good things'? What would happen if 200 years ago our anscestors said 'Well, things are good enough. Let's be happy with the way things are and stop trying to do more." Jeez, that would have been crazy! Likewise, let's not have our future descendents 200 years in the future wonder "Why did that generation in 2010 sit on their butts?" JMO!

 

Yep, down with the wife-beaters.

 

I will cite just one example of cultural difference just from my observations here.

Every time someone posts a thread here asking for advice and help citing they are getting physically abused by their husband repeatedly, 3 or maybe 4 out of 10 people would tell her to call 999 or 911 because physical abuse and spousal battery against women in western societies is a crime and there are systems in place to deal with this rubbish and laws to deal with the culprit. The rest invariably as I have noticed will go 'Oh NO, do not call the police. Be patient' or 'Oh maybe he is stressed from his work and his parents and he is beating you up. It will go away' or 'Be kind and kill him with kindness and he will change'. REALLY? One of your fellow woman is getting battered by the husband and the best you can come up is 'Show your other cheek' or 'Take all the abuse with patience and he will change'? She is not exactly a peace protester in the Dandi march with Gandhi, you know. In other words, fellow women are advising a battered spouse 'Please make whatever unreasonable compromises you have to as a woman so that you can stay in this lousy marriage for namesake and hang on to this abusive gem of a husband of yours'.

I grew up in a society where I am attuned to call the police when its me getting physically abused or some complete stranger on the street getting physically abused by her husband or boyfriend. Why? Because I have a social obligation to do so. Physical abuse against women is neither a tolerable offense and nor is it some kind of joke. If a friend of mine came up and told me they are getting battered by their spouse, my first advice to them would be to call the police and if I were to witness it, I'd call the police myself without any second thoughts. If I were to be a victim of physical abuse from my spouse, the first thing my parents would do is call the law enforcement. Because they are primarily interested in the wellbeing and welfare of their daughter and not her staying in an abusive and lousy marriage so they can put up a fake saving face to the society and save their false pride and dignity.

When there are fellow women advising a victim of physical abuse to tolerate it and make compromises, that to me is purely a result of cultural difference. Because if someone were to suggest that to a victim of abuse in UK or US or Europe, they would be viewed as barmy and not right in their head.

On a side note, I think this particular thread belongs in General Discussion and I am not sure why the OP started this in here as the nature of the topic is generic and it is not a personal issue they are facing.

 

This is turning out to be one interesting thread... So many diverse views and points that had me nodding in agreement - even when I would have initially diagreed! The point is there is no ONE answer to this age-old phenomenon - why women DO what they do!!

IMO I would lay the onus on the gender-conditioning that most of us are exposed to. In this regard I have to agree with Sridivya in that this is more apparent in the way the Indian household works, thinks, and is basically structured. However, I would also give points to BeeAmma for pointing out that gender-conditioning in itself is NOT a culture-specific thing, although we will grant that some cultures tend to overdo it.

We all agree that women in general are taught early that there are clearly demarcated areas of what makes a 'good' woman - obedience, selfless attitude, patience, love and care, devotion, open to compromise - these are what little girls are taught as the basis to lead a happy life. IMO these are no doubt good traits for anybody to have, but men who demonstrate such traits are generally seen as effeminate, again this is not exactly a culture specific thing.

There are some areas I tend to differ from posters who have said women are their own enemies, and that the situation could be corrected by their interference alone. Be it any culture, a family is a unit comprised of several members, of which it is understood men claim the right to be HOH. To say that a woman's rules are the sole ones in play in terms of how the son is bought up is a a bit extreme. IMO women even in this generation are tied by their apron strings to their MEN, and no they are not really puppeteered but it is close! Personally, I have seen this leaving behind dishes for the woman (read mother, and later wife) to be cleared up, or leaving a mess in the dining table. Clearly the mother herself set the trend, not because she wanted to but was conditioned so herself - when she first married. And it is not her MIL's role alone in play, but that of her FIL who also controls how the MIL reacts, speaks and conditions the DIL (who has anyway been moulded enough in her parental home).

Now that would be scandalous wouldn't it! Have you seen the movie LAJJA (hindi) - if you haven't you must - it has an exact scene like this, when Madhuri (depicting Sita in a play) demands that Ram join her in the Agni Pariksha and all hell breaks loose shortly thereafter.

BeeAmma, very valid point here. Only, in the Indian scenario, it is not just 'abortion' as in terminating a pregnancy, but 'infanticide' as in actually murdering an infant, usually a girl baby - barely days old - in cold blood, with poison infused breast-milk, or even more insane drowning (cases are documented to this day)! Would you classify this as a woman's right to choice? Hardly, because in most cases it is NOT the woman making the choice; of course she may be conditioned to do so maybe because she uses her own life as a benchmark and wants to prevent such a grave fate to her unborn/new-born baby girl.

I agree with the point you are making. Culture in itself is not what makes people what they are, but it is the people who are deep-rooted in such set and prejudiced views who further pass on the prejudice to future generations. Which means that while sadistic individuals maybe a by-product of ANY culture, instilling pre-conceived notions on what makes a good woman/man, teaching men how a woman is to be controlled/put in her place, basically means that the 'sadistic' traits get slowly but surely ingrained. What is just a matter of chance now becomes more probable, if not certain.

The point I am making is that no doubt the cultural basis of our nation has its own richness, a depth and uniqueness our own. And we take pride in that! We are secular, we are tolerant, we are making a difference - culturally, politically, environmentally. YES! Equally though the fact remains that the Indian woman has come the distance she has solely because as a culture we have also learnt to look at ourselves the way an outsider would. And frankly this is not such a bad thing. This gives us better objectivity, and helps analyse and address areas that are the NEED of the day. There are women presidents and women leaders, but to me passing a reservation bill alone will not be a point of salvation for women. Only change of MINDSETS can do that.

Sridivya, I would have to agree with you on this - do you think this line will be deleted too?!!

 

We all know India has advanced a lot and it has lot of potential to become unbeatable in the future. And aren't we all proud when we see and hear a great technological advancement our country makes each time like the recent Chandrayan launch. YES! We are very proud!

At the same time, let us also try to admit the evils we have and see how we can uproot them from the society.
Minus the evils we are the BEST.
So, let us strive to make that happen. Let us not sit back, relax and take it easy and live a life of denial and turn a blind eye to the atrocities happening in the name of culture and traditions in our own family.

I think our family.......our selves, our husband , our kids, is the first place to start.

Sridivya

 

I think in the pre-boom decades in India, middle-class girls were asked to compromise due to lack of viable alternatives. There were fewer economic opportunities or options to remarry. If the girl was financially dependent and divorced, it would be the parents responsibility to care for her--the easier way was to ask her to put up.

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As far as OP's question goes:

I still do not know what level of compromise OP is alluding to?

Small, everyday compromises happen when we live or work with others. Some are cleaner, some get worked up. You have to figure out ways to co-exist and live/work with different personalities.

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Btw, what happened to Malavika's thread on censorship on the relationship forums? I am not able to search for it.

 

No! I haven't watched that movie. Now, I am going to, maybe coming Friday night if I can get a DVD by then.
Thanks!

Who knows?
My post needs to pass the test too.....:biglaugh:biglaugh