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Whose Lie Is Not Untruth?

Discussion in 'Snippets of Life (Non-Fiction)' started by HariLakhera, May 3, 2022.

  1. HariLakhera

    HariLakhera Platinum IL'ite

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    Whose lie is not untruth?

    Gautama Buddha said:

    “An untruth spoken by people under the influence of anger, excessive joy, fear, pain or grief, by infants, by very old men, by persons laboring under a delusion, being under the influence of drink, or by madmen, does not cause the speaker to fall, or, as we should say, is a venial, not a moral sin.”

    I can not vouch for it but if Max Muller has quoted it in one of his lectures, I am inclined to accept it.
    It seems a lie can be spoken and condoned in almost any situation.

    On the other hand, in Mahabharata, Kaushik, a Satyavadi, saw men flying into the forest chased by robbers. The robbers asked him which way they had gone and he told the truth. Robbers caught the men and killed them. Kaushik went to hell for speaking the truth.

    A butcher chasing a cow asked a man which way it went and he misguided him by directing him to the opposite way. The man goes to heaven because he saved a cow.

    Hindu holy books give utmost importance to the truth. But in the same wave, truth is punished and the lie is rewarded.

    Today, it is difficult to say what is truth in the first place. Each individual has his or her own truth.

    Having scanned the above truths, I am inclined to believe that there is no lie or it is difficult to prove a lie.

    The reason is simple. There are people who can prove that earth is in the center of the universe. All it needs is cunningness and playing with facts. In fact, some of our leading lawyers are famous for taking cases of criminals who have committed crimes in daylight under the presence of several witnesses and videos. How come? By buying or threatening the witnesses, by proving the videos are doctored at el.

    So, what do we do? We know that there is the truth though we may not be in a position to prove it like, say, there is GOD. It is in there somewhere, maybe in some of the mysteries of the universe we have yet to uncover.

    Or, maybe there is neither truth nor untruth, two sides of the same coin.
     
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  2. jayasala42

    jayasala42 IL Hall of Fame

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    From the day the child is born into this world,he is brought
    up among lies,liesand unmixed lies.It is conventional wisdom
    that children never tell lies.But researchers on child psychology
    convey that lying plays a positive role in normal child development
    and that telling lies is more or less comparable to individual
    thinking and emotional control.All kids learn to lie well even
    at the age of two.
    When the children make open remarks ,we parents intervene
    and make the children believe that honesty is not welcome
    and that there is a fine line between telling the truth and hurting
    the people.We poison the children who innocently convey
    to the person at the door step’Daddy says that he is not at home”

    All parents lie for convenience and children faithfully imitate.

    Knowingly or unknowingly man has to be consciously aware
    of continuing different lies to different persons to escape
    being caught and is unable to come out of the vicious circle.
    There are people who wantonly advocate lies and argue that
    a truth that is told with bad intent will beat all the lies that you can invent.
    For fear of concealing the truth, if we are silent,then silence
    also becomes a lie.Can we find a single field that is free from lies?
    Lies are stated to be sugar coated capsules to convey the bitter
    truths in life.The liars that have social acceptance are the
    actors,dramatists,historians and fiction writers who are specialized
    in the art of weaving series of lies .They escape the scandal
    because of the professional tag attached .

    It is a common observation that women,in order to get
    widows’pensiondon’t to obtain fake’death –certificates’for their
    live husbands and there are people to issue fake certificates
    on fake letter heads for monetary gain for any purpose.
    Not to talk of election promises which are nothing but lies
    wrapped in pretty packings.
    Medical professionals give false hopes to the relatives of the
    terminally ill patients,extract lakhs of rupees within a week,
    only to convey God’s will and handing over the mortal remains.
    Many lawyers and judges who belong to a higher breed
    of intellectuals consider it a proud privilege to talk nothing
    but lies ,which come under the ‘technically true’ category
    in their profession and are experts in misleading others to
    believe what is not true.There is no dearth of oaths taking
    ‘tospeak the truth,the whole truth and nothing but truth’.

    Wherever you turn,you see nothing but lies.When we become
    so much accustomed to lies and deceipt,one feels as if he is
    committing a crime if he starts telling the truth which appears
    false and dangerous.In the present situation,”truth is nothing
    more than what one chooses to believe in the moment”
    The national motto ‘SathyamevaJayate’still holds good with
    definition of ‘Sathyam’having undergone total metamorphosis.
    I believe that there is no absolute truth excepting the truth
    that there is no absolute truth”.


    Jayasala 42
     
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  3. Srama

    Srama IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear @HariLakhera,

    There is an old Sanskrit saying that goes

    सत्यं ब्रूयात् प्रियं ब्रूयान्न ब्रूयात् सत्यमप्रियम् ।
    प्रियं च नानृतं ब्रूयादेष धर्मः सनातनः ॥ १३८ ॥

    satyaṃ brūyāt priyaṃ brūyānna brūyāt satyamapriyam |
    priyaṃ ca nānṛtaṃ brūyādeṣa dharmaḥ sanātanaḥ || 138 ||

    He shall say what is true; and he shall say what is agreeable; he shall not say what is true, but disagreeable; nor shall he say what is agreeable, but untrue; this is the eternal law.—(138)

    I believe it is from Manusmirthi - how many of us do and can follow this eternal law?
     
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  4. HariLakhera

    HariLakhera Platinum IL'ite

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    Thanks for exploring the genesis of lies. There are different types of lies, as you say, some harmless, some cunning, and some devastating. In short, there is no truth, but some sugar-coated lies.
     
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  5. HariLakhera

    HariLakhera Platinum IL'ite

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    Thanks. I guess Buddha was elaborating on this shloka only. Satya, the truth can never be Priyam, sweet. We live in a catch-22 situation.

    The question may arise, if so, is Satya the Dharma or Dharma is Truth? If everything has be qualified, where is the need for truth or lie?
     
  6. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Some years ago one algebra homework had all of us up till late night. The homework was:
    "Prove that zero is not a positive number."

    Many tears were shed, arguments ensued and the teacher's qualifications were sincerely questioned. : )

    What is a lie? What is an untruth? Is lie necessarily the opposite of truth? And then add "agreeable" truth to the fray.

    Thought-provoking snippet.
     
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  7. beautifullife30

    beautifullife30 Finest Post Winner

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    From my understanding,

    a lie told selflessly to save someone from some danger creates a good karma.

    The man here chose to lie to help a cow in need. His lie was a selfless lie to help someone in danger and not to further his own agenda. so he accumulated a good karma

    In this scenario, Kaushik knew who they were and what they wanted. Instead of truth, he could have chosen to lie to spare those men from the robbers. His act of being truthful resulted in a lot of people getting killed. He might have chosen to speak the truth but again, he ended up creating bad karma beause it was not the truth that was needed then but a bit of common sense.

    Truth which hurts others unnecessarily or a lie told for selfish purposes are nothing but the same.

    All that we need is a bit of common sense of right and wrong!
     
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  8. HariLakhera

    HariLakhera Platinum IL'ite

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    Yes, it has always confused me or should I say mesmerized me. I have myself spoken so many truths which I do not deem fit to say. One of them is this very snippet. Where to go? Is there someone around who spoke the universal truth? And what is that anyway?
     
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  9. HariLakhera

    HariLakhera Platinum IL'ite

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    Our Gurus tried to solve this riddle in their own way. I guess they knew that they are pretending. There is no absolute truth or lie. The other day I was listening to Sadguru entertaining that because of his long and unkept beard he is taken aside at almost all airports for questioning. Some take him as truth incarnated and some as a suspect.
     
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  10. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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    :hello: Kudos to my friend @HariLakhera for bringing out yet another thought provoking topic of lie I.e. untruth. Though the world and the nation believes truth prevails & or triumphs but under the very banner, even popular leaders are impelled to utter lie .
    Lie like truth is an inalienable part of every human being. If a Lie told in right time a billion times through media, the vast humanity takes it as truth.

    A conductor was issuing tickets in a running bus; when he questioned the lady the age of accompanying boy, the lady said he is only four. That means the boy less than five and could travel free.
    She found an empty seat by side of another woman passenger, so she occupied it and the boy sat snuggled to mom.
    The woman passenger had heard the just conversation between the conductor and woman.
    They alighted at the next stop.

    Interview for admission to first standard commenced. The woman with the boy called first. She was pleasantly surprised to see the person to interview her and her boy. Inter alia, the interviewer asked the age of the boy in completed years.
    The boy’s mother showed the birth certificate of the boy evidencing the boy is over five years old.
    The interviewer said, “ madam. The interview is over. You said age of boy as four to the bus conductor. This way you must be nurturing your child with lies”.

    For the larger benefit to a society, one can lie. Politicians do that. Saint Thiruvalluvar Tamil poet also bails out such liers.

    The famous Krupanatha Variar Swamigal of yesteryears, used to explain this beautifully. A drunken man chases his wife with a knife to kill her. She was mistaken as did a big crime by the husband. She runs for her life.

    She takes refuge inside a Rishi’s hermit. He hides her inside and sits outside.Now the husband asks the rishi where is my wife?. I know you won’t lie. Please tell me the truth. Now within seconds the Rishi understands the situation and tells the husband and tells him she is not inside. It is a lie, but still a truth.

    The next day the husband realizes the mistake and comes to him and says to him, thanks for not telling the truth. In the inebriated condition, i would have killed her, now i understood and repent for that. Thanks for saving my wife. This is what Thivalluvar means.

    Many a times, sayings of celebrities can be easily misunderstood. So deep thinking is required to understand the Truth/lie.

    Helen Rowland Quotes. “Telling lies is a fault in a boy, an art in a lover, an accomplishment in a bachelor, and second-nature in a married man.”

    When diplomats say “no” meaning yes and vice versa certainly they mingle lies with truth.

    When I lost the shawl of spouse early morning while alighting from bus the temperature was around some 6°c. I reached home and first question spouse put to me was,” where is my blue shawl?” I told her a lie that it has gone with her sister in law who was seen off by me at New Delhi railway station at dawn. The lie was troubling me often till the sisters met again. The truth never uncovered for decades!”. More about this in link

    3s-spouse, Shawl & Sister-in-lawThe

    We have heard of AhabHiram patter lied to Sarobhoji maharaja that the day was Poornima when it was actually blue-moon. But Goddess Abhirami caused the day to be poornim and helped save Pattar from sure death sentence. God too at times convert lie as truth .
     
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