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What is Bhakti ?

Discussion in 'Chitvish on Hindu Culture & Vedanta' started by Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006.

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Nov 23, 2006 #11

sudhavnarasimhan Silver IL'ite

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Dear Chitra,

A wonderful post....as usual u have picked up a topic, which again meant something else all this time....you know, the word bhakti always says going to temple or worship god etc. But your explanation on Love directed towards higher principle and its gradation and your subsequent posts , are all gems .....especially these lines....
Jnana yoga is discovering our own real nature & that Self-discovery is God-discovery !
Thus bhakti is the entire course of spiritual discipline.
These are so profound and i am waiting to hear more on these lines and contemplate. Glad that i logged on quickly to see what was your post today.....and i happen to be sitting in the pooja room when i did this. Was thinking of reciting some slokas today. So ....:clap

sudhavnarasimhan, Nov 23, 2006

sudhavnarasimhan, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #12

Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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My dear Preethi !

I am amazed, how you have analysed my write up. I received your queries by PM & here, I attempt to answer them in as simple a way, as possible.
Questions:
1. To me, Bakthi means "Love towards God", I haven't associated Bakthi to any humanly form. you say that Self-Love i.e. loving oneself is highest form of love? how do you justify "God-Love" is same as "Self-Love" ? Afterall, God is the Supreme reality, Loving god is it not greater and more divine than loving oneself?
2. If we agree on the lines of 1 and equate god and self love , is it because of the belief that God is within us??

Bhakti to human form is matr Bhakti, Guru Bhakti etc. Please see my answer to Kamla.
http://www.indusladies.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25589&postcount=4
You are arriving at the answer yourself - God is within us.

Mahakavi Bharathi says:

"சாமி நீ; சாமி நீ; கடவுள் நீயே
தத்வமசி; தத்வமசி; நீயே அஹ்தாம் !
பூமியிலே நீ கடவுளில்லையென்று
புகழ்வதுநின் மனத்துள்ளே புகுந்த மாயை;
சாமி நீ; அம்மாயை நீக்கி
சதாகாலம் "சிவோஹ" மென்று சாதிப்பாயே"
Shivoham means shiva aham - I am God.

3. Can you explain to me what is End-Love and Means-Love with practical examples ? my assumption is one of them is what we often refer to as "Materialistic love" - love for perishable things like money, comfort, luxury etc? is it so ? Am still not able to relate these two love in our day-to-day life !

Love of the means is not for the sake of the means itself ! It is only for the sake of the end. Once the end is accomplished, the attitude towards the means is completely different & is often forgotten. Rich people are loved more than poor people because they are the means for the end called wealth. If they lose their money, they are no more approached ! Elderly rich people are very sincerely served by family members. You know where the sincerity lies ! ( I am not generalising, please !). Very often, the motive of service is to inherit the wealth. Most often, in present day life, money is the end. So, the love for the end is superior to the love for the means. If means is dear to you, the end is dearer to you.
Now, between the love of the end & oneself, which is superior ? By logic, I love various ends not for the sake of end itself. I love various ends hoping that they will give me comfort, security, happiness etc. The moment I see that a particular end does not give me joy, then the end is changed ! That is why, marriages break down now-a days. Couples who choose each other get separated. Loved ones are rejected when they are found uncomfortable for oneself. So, the Self is the dearest. The Upanishad says
"Nobody loves the husband for husband's sake, but for one's own sake".
It is a shockingly true statement ! Everything is loved for one's own sake only.
You want to be happy, ultimately.

4. While classifying various Gradation of love, Where do I fit "Unconditional Love" ? Is Unconditional Love (giving love without any expecatation, a pure form of love) also a form of Bakthi ??

Unconditional love, by corollary, falls under Self-love only !

I do hope, I have been of some help, Preethi !

Love & regards,
Chithra.

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #13

sudhavnarasimhan Silver IL'ite

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Dear Chitra,
Yyour answers to Preethi's in depth questions were good....she has also asked some relevant questions....even i was just thinking about all this....so ur answer was good...but again you are saying that whatever it is it is all SELF LOVE , because ultimately God is you and you are God...the concept of Shivoham!.....is that what you are saying....or have i got it all wrong. Maybe we could come with some day to day egs and analyse these points.

sudhavnarasimhan, Nov 23, 2006

sudhavnarasimhan, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #14

Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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My dear Meena !

Thankyou for the F B.
Please see my answer to Sudha which follows next.
Love & regards,
Chithra.

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #15

Preethi Gold IL'ite

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Clear Understanding now..

Dear Chitra,

Many thanks for the detailed explanation !

I read your replies couple of times.

You cannot explain End-Love and Means-Love better than this, Reading your examples and explanations, my understanding has been made crystal clear !

Certainly after reading your post, I have had my doubts cleared !

The bharathi quote is simple and easily understandable. An apt quote here !

Thanks for the pain you have taken to patiently explain all my questions (which are invariably silly) !

Thanks a lot Chitra.

Looking forward to hear more on this topic and other related spiritual discussions. There is something or the other that is worth learning from all your post !

You're really a darling !

Love,
Preethi
PS: This discussion reminds me about the underylying theme of Kamal's movie "Anbe Sivam" where he claims he is god and those who do good deeds are god.

Last edited: Nov 23, 2006

Preethi, Nov 23, 2006

Preethi, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #16

Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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My dear Sudha !

Thankyou for both the mails here.
Self-love God-love are identical because

Tat Tvam Asi

That you are

God (and) you (are) united (one)

Right now accept it - then we will come to understanding it.
When we deal with Atma, we will analyse it more clearly.
I do not want to crowd your mind with too many points !

Thirumoolar says
சீவன் என சிவன் என வேறில்லை
சீவனார் சிவனாரை அறிகிலர்
சீவனார் சிவனாரை அறிந்தபின்
சீவனார் சிவனாயிட்டிருப்பாரே !

Self is God, not different
Self does not know this
Once Self learns this
Self is understood as God.

Love & regards,
Chithra.

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #17

Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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Nice mail from Preethi Darling !

I am glad you are making every effort to understand. Read the thirumoolam quote. That is also good & enjoyable.
Love & regards,
Chithra.

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #18

Preethi Gold IL'ite

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I Conclude with thanks !

Chitra,

The thirumoolar quote is straight-forward and understandable !

After reading all posting and its related replies, to make it short and sweet, I understand

"Self-Love" is "God-Love" in other words Bakthi !

This discussion has given a new dimension for the term "Bakthi" and understanding it with examples and quotation made it only more interesting !

Now eagerly waiting for my next lesson !

Thank you, once again Chitra !

Love,
Preethi

chitvish said: ↑

I am glad you are making every effort to understand. Read the thirumoolam quote. That is also good & enjoyable.
Love & regards,
Chithra.
Click to expand...

Preethi, Nov 23, 2006

Preethi, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #19

Vandhana Silver IL'ite

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Excellent Write up

Dear Ms C,

A beautiful write up. I read this last night itself, but was feeling a little tired to grasp the full content. Now readit with a clear mind and yes God is love, and we are god ousrselves. But so very many few of use ever come to this realisation. We always seaprate god as a independant identity , just so we have some one to fall back on during difficulties, some one to ask for our wisahes to be fullfilled. etc...
Your explanations to Preethi was superb.

Vandhana

Vandhana, Nov 23, 2006

Vandhana, Nov 23, 2006

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Nov 23, 2006 #20

Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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You are very kind in your words, Vandhana !

As I start touching introductory topics on vedanta, it is becoming more challenging. I try to avoid technical vedantic jargons, for fear of all you running away ! So to explain in layman's language as much as possible is quite a daunting task - but I just love it !
I cannot thank my Guru enough. He insisted that I should start vedanta, for the ultimate benefit of the readers !
It is so nice to know that you all understand and enjoy it.
Thankyou for the F B, Vandhana !
Love & regards,
Chithra.

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

Chitvish, Nov 23, 2006

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