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What Do You Think Of Us?

Discussion in 'Parents & Siblings' started by SeekingMind, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. SeekingMind

    SeekingMind Silver IL'ite

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    Hi all,

    we are family of 5 members. mom dad brother sister and me
    Dad passed away few years back.

    dad purchased a piece of land and a bro built house with his money.
    Bro lives outside India. Sis lives in India.
    Right from the time bro got married there were issues in the family. Long story short sis in law unable to adjust in the family. Who knows who is at fault but end result she keeps herself away from us and we (sis and me )do the same too unless required to interact with her we generally avoid.

    bro and wife were indifferent regarding care of parents. Sis was always there for them inspite of her own issues. she feels to this day she is looked down by them. luckily dad mom are financially independent and didn’t have to depend on children.

    so when dad passed away it was matter of taking care of mom. relatives started telling bro to come back to look after but he had teenage kids so it was not easy. He did not do that but took mom for some time. During her entire stay with them we would get calls now and then from bro that we need to talk to mom and explain her on do’s and don’ts in his house. Well I wouldn’t say he is wrong. Sometimes mom too is stubborn in her ways. She is not too vocal but very quiet and stubborn which would drive him and wife nuts.
    But Sometimes I felt they were over reacting. They are obsessed with healthy diet and mom is kinda not that.
    Diet is one thing only , cleanliness is another, and so on so forth , there were other topics that sis in law would bring up digging the past.
    anyways coming to property matters there would be heated talks about property and calls to me and sis in law regarding property.
    After dad the property came to rest of us since dad didn’t transfer to him.
    bro kept pressuring us to sign it for him.
    At that point we started having the suspicion he would take property and gradually wash his hands off mom welfare. we refused to give it entirely to him. mom wanted us to give it to him saying it belongs to him . We stood our ground. mom tried very hard to convince us. we refused. finally she gave up.
    I told as long as mom is living we will have a hold on it. and we will use it for mom’s welfare after her , I don’t need, he can take it. But sis deserves her share since she is looking after mom.
    this irks bro too much and he branded us thieves untrustworthy unfaithful etc etc and told mom he has been let down by his own family his own parents. mom feels sad whenever she recalls that.
    when the topic of living with son permanently came mom didn’t want to live with son so went back to India to live with her daughter (sis). she said she would be at peace back there. she said she can’t adjust to the ways of life abroad. also deep down even I didn’t want her with bro. I sensed she is not happy there so I supported her decision. I also got fed up with constant bickerings whenever she is there.
    finally mom is in India and doing well. Doesn’t even like the idea of travel now and anyways she is getting old too.
    as for bro and wife we cheated them.

    your thoughts please?
    thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  2. sandhya2020

    sandhya2020 Silver IL'ite

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    It was unfair of your dad to build house with son's money and not write a will. Son assumed he was going to inherit it being the son so he built a 2 storey house, if you parents had plans to divide it equally, they should have told him beforehand, so he could have invested his money for his won future.I think that's the root cause of all differences .
    And he is willing to take his mom abroad and care for her, just he is not willing to come back to India , cos of job and kids'education.Again that is a valid reason, it does not amke him a bad son.
    As per your previous post,Property Belongs To Whom? which is v.similar so Im comparing and I agree in this case with others that BIL is playing smart.
    Brother feels he spent all his savings on the house construction by assuming he will inherit it. Many NRIs suffer like this. Everyone takes care in their own way.Your mom just had a land, son has built her a big house to stay . Sister has provided physical care.It is wrong to think that son has not done anything and only sister is taking care.

    Parents' property can go to whomever they want to give, fair to give it to the person taking care.
    But isn't it also possible that you sister's husband(BIL) will wash hands off your mom's care once he gets the property rights to the house.If BIL/sis really cared so much, he would have taken mom to his house and taken care of her.Instead they want to move in, remodel the house, and inherit the house, which was built with your bro's money.Today your BIL is nice and letting your sister take care of mom, just because he has eyes on property.After getting the property, how many son-in-laws will actually take care of mother-in-law.What about his own parents? Sorry to say, they are much more interested in inheritance in return for takin care.So nobody is a saint here.

    Atleats there is social pressure on son to take care of mother, and emotional bond too, and for that he is asking his mom to come abroad rather than him coming back to India which is actually very difficult . Tiffs between saas-bahu is common.But atleats son is interested in taking care of mom by taking her abroad.He has not abandoned her.

    But can Son-in-law be trusted to take care of your mom, once he gets the house. I feel giving property to daughter and son-in-law would be mistake because of 2 reasons.It was build by son's money.Secondly, son-in-law cannot be trusted to take care of mother-in-law, and the patriarchal society will support him if he abandons /neglects her. Women don't have much power due to how our society is.

    so, take whatever decision you want what is best interest of your mom's future. I feel son can be trusted over son-in-law generally.Women are powerles sin these matters- so i will not comment about bahu/beti. Maybe your mom beggin you bot to transfer the property to son, because she too fears the same about son-in-law considering how the society is. But now she is helpless.

    Now legally, property will come equally to all because no will is present .

    And morally, first they can sell the property, and give the son market rate for what he spent on house construction (inflation adjusted) which is difficult to calculate , and rest property- land value can go to your sister for taking care of mom. But you have to build legal safety net for your mom somehow, so that son-in-law wont abandon after getting the inheritance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  3. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    1) Who all have lived in that house since it got built? Who lives in it currently? Has your brother ever received any rent on it?

    2) The house was built by your brother but the land belonged to your father. So, why should you and your sister sign over the property to him?

    3) Shouldn't you and your sister receive a share of the land that the house is built on? Why are you sisters OK with him getting all the property after your mother?

    Something is missing in the description.
     
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  4. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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    @sandhya2020
    An issue in all its ramifications stand analysed in-depth for which I shall award full marks.

    Two sons and two married daughters daughters. Younger daughter with her husband returned from abroad to live with parents. Senior son in law and elder daughter were away in another city.
    When father took ill, he took four lacs from his junior son-in-law for his spouse and his immediate medical expenses and compensated by granting permission to construct & live in first floor.

    First floor constructed by junior son in law and for couple of years they lived there and then rented it & left to reside in Malaysia.

    After a decade, senior daughter with her husband returned to find that her dad’s property sold and proceeds shared equally between her two brothers and sister’s husband. And her sister with family too returned from Malaysia, settled in another rented house nearby.

    The younger sister was not happy with this sharing and alerted her elder to claim her share. Both sisters disputed with brothers and demanded their share from total proceeds of the dad’s property sold for over ₹ two crores.

    If there was a Will by dad, the sisters are not aware of it nor it was ever shown to them. Sisters mom too expired recently.

    Dad in his deathbed wept stating he failed his daughters especially the elder one who was employed and contributed toward family welfare for three years till she got married when her siblings were all studying in college and not married.

    Sons family and daughters are not in talking terms.

    Any solution exists?

    Thanks and Regards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  5. Hopikrishnan

    Hopikrishnan Platinum IL'ite

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    Yes; something is missing. When there is no will, the property would be equally divided among class-1 heirs: widow, and three children would each get 1/4 of the value of the property.
    The property "cannot come to" some of the heirs, unless some heirs submit a legal declaration to the probate court that they do not want their shares. This is often referred to as "sign away" their shares.
    If some of the heirs had been living on the property [without rent] the eviction of the squatters would become very difficult in India. Postponement lawyers can earn a life's pension on such matters.
    is this a different family story ?
    Parental intestate demise, followed by property dispute between siblings could have a silver lining. When brother and sister are no longer in talking terms, they couldn't let their children [cross cousins] marry in order to re-co-mingle the property and make it whole again by the joint ownership of their children. However the court system, with their annual vacations, and clever postponement lawyers, help further in prolonging the dispute long enough to make sure that the cross cousins become older and married to other non-relatives.
    Anyone read "The selfish gene" by Dawkins? The property disputes could have been a conspiracy by the genes to make sure that they go on to stronger adaptations than stay within the family and shrivel out.
     
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  6. Mistt

    Mistt IL Hall of Fame

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    Oops!By mistake posted in wrong a thread. :facepalm:
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  7. MalStrom

    MalStrom IL Hall of Fame

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    Your fathers property will come to all of you, including your mother in the absence of a will. If I understand correctly. If your brother wants the land then he should give both you and your sister the fair market value.
     
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  8. sandhya2020

    sandhya2020 Silver IL'ite

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    To be honest, I feel bad for your brother.He was definitely cheated.
    And your sister's husband/sister are taking legal advantage of the situation that father did not write a will, Only time will tell if they are genuinely caring for your mom, or just with eyes to get the property.
    The best course of action is to calculate the inflation adjusted rate of house built by your brother , which willd efinitely be quite a lot.
    And rest , the property should be given to mother/invested in her name- so she cna will it to whomever takes care of her. But i feel that will not happen.



    Thank you so much !!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  9. SeekingMind

    SeekingMind Silver IL'ite

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  10. SeekingMind

    SeekingMind Silver IL'ite

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    @sandhya2020 you are right I posted earlier long back. It’s the same family. My father in law’s side. One of the daughters is my friend and she vents out to me sometimes. I didn’t mention that and posted as though it’s my story. The title of the post is what she keeps asking me please tell what you think of us? What would others think? And so on.
    Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts.
     
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