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Supreme Court Verdict On Section 377- My Understanding.

Discussion in 'Snippets of Life (Non-Fiction)' started by GeetaKashyap, Sep 9, 2018.

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Sep 10, 2018 #21

yellowmango IL Hall of Fame

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Finally!!!!

yellowmango, Sep 10, 2018

yellowmango, Sep 10, 2018

#21

kaniths, SinghManisha, friendabc and 1 other person like this.
Sep 10, 2018 #22

GeetaKashyap IL Hall of Fame

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Viswamitra said: ↑

My righteous mind tells me that everyone should have the right to choose their sexual orientation. This part of me is very liberal.
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Viswamitra said: ↑

There is another part of me that is conservative.
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Viswamitra said: ↑

Lastly, the litmus test I apply is, do I have the heart if any of my future generation wants to be a gay? I have to admit, I have no answer to these questions.
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All of us or most of us face this dilemma. I hope and pray ultimately love triumphs everything else.

Viswamitra said: ↑

He ended up committing suicide not able to reconcile between the social pressure and natural feeling as a girl.
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@Viswamitra Sir,

Thanks for this candid feedback. When I was a little girl, I thought that the transgenders were born only to the poor! Much later, past my teens, I read how the children with ambiguous gender are given away at birth by the parents to 'that' community or the adoption centres for the fear and complications faced in the society. It is heartening to note how unfortunate these children are! Still, the poorer communities accept them far easily compared to the middle and the rich class. Transgender spokesperson Lakshmi Tripathi's videos and talks are an eye opener! Laughing at the effeminate was a natural thing for us then, but now it's time to change our paradigms and broaden our horizons to include all the children of God into the fabric of the society.
Recently, a female police constable from Beed district in Maharashtra ran from pillar to post to change the sex to male and also retain the constable's job. Luckily, he succeeded. 2 days ago, another case was published in the newspapers about a child with ambiguous genitalia born to a poor muslim family and raised as a girl till the age of 5. Now, after a doctor diagnosed otherwise, that child's surgical transformation has started!

Last edited: Sep 10, 2018

GeetaKashyap, Sep 10, 2018

GeetaKashyap, Sep 10, 2018

#22

SinghManisha, friendabc, Viswamitra and 2 others like this.
Sep 10, 2018 #23

GeetaKashyap IL Hall of Fame

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BerryPine said: ↑

It may take forever for social acceptance on this yet good to see the 'gay pride flag' allover.Refer attachments.
Sexual activity between same gender is legal but same sex marriage and same sex adoption legalization is pending. And this pass is not yet applicable at Jammu and Kashmir.
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Thanks for the inputs, @BerryPine. I wish the integration begins without much resistance.

GeetaKashyap, Sep 10, 2018

GeetaKashyap, Sep 10, 2018

#23
Sep 10, 2018 #24

GeetaKashyap IL Hall of Fame

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yellowmango said: ↑

Finally!!!!
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Yes, finally!

Thanks for the cheerful feedback, @yellowmango

GeetaKashyap, Sep 10, 2018

GeetaKashyap, Sep 10, 2018

#24
Sep 10, 2018 #25

Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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Dear Smt. GeetaKashyap,

I always admire your openhearted posts here. There is so much I learn from your posts. Even every sentences you write here I carefully read to learn something new. You are right. There is no age limit to learn to love people as they are. It is heartbreaking to see the struggle the Eunuchs and Transgenders go through in life living separately supporting each other. I can't stop admiring how they come up in life in spite of lack of community support financially, psychologically and emotionally. Parents giving up children because of the fear of backlash from the society is outright wrong and difficult to digest.

I am sure if we continue to learn to love people as they are, it is not that hard to reach the stage when we would accept our own family members if they happened to be part of LGBTQ. Thank you as always, for your wonderful contributions to this little community here.

Viswa

Viswamitra, Sep 10, 2018

Viswamitra, Sep 10, 2018

#25

SinghManisha, yellowmango and GeetaKashyap like this.
Sep 10, 2018 #26

GeetaKashyap IL Hall of Fame

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Viswamitra said: ↑

Dear Smt. GeetaKashyap,

I always admire your openhearted posts here. There is so much I learn from your posts. Even every sentences you write here I carefully read to learn something new. You are right. There is no age limit to learn to love people as they are. It is heartbreaking to see the struggle the Eunuchs and Transgenders go through in life living separately supporting each other. I can't stop admiring how they come up in life in spite of lack of community support financially, psychologically and emotionally. Parents giving up children because of the fear of backlash from the society is outright wrong and difficult to digest.

I am sure if we continue to learn to love people as they are, it is not that hard to reach the stage when we would accept our own family members if they happened to be part of LGBTQ. Thank you as always, for your wonderful contributions to this little community here.

Viswa
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Aww...thank you for the acknowledgement, @Viswamitra Sir. It looks like we are becoming members of the mutual admiration society here! I too admire your intellectual articles and the honest stand you take, irrespective of what others have to say. One more ex-blogger has a lot of good things to say about you!

Viswamitra said: ↑

I am sure if we continue to learn to love people as they are, it is not that hard to reach the stage when we would accept our own family members if they happened to be part of LGBTQ.
Click to expand...

You summed it up well!

GeetaKashyap, Sep 10, 2018

GeetaKashyap, Sep 10, 2018

#26
Sep 11, 2018 #27

kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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The first step is the 'coming out' process. Many do not dare to disclose, instead choose to remain in the safety closet due to fear of being disowned by their own family and close friends, for the shame and humiliations they might face outside. In other cases, despite the care and understanding, there is a lack of open support due to peer pressure from the society. Scrapping the law hopefully encourages more people of fluidity to identify boldly who they are, now that there is constitutional back up. To change the law and to change mentalities are different things. In a country where honor killing against hetero love marriages is still prevailing to our horrors, social acceptance of LGBTQ+ love is going to take a while. Nevertheless a progressive step towards inclusion and equality.

Good riddance, my congratulations. Celebrate Love (alike).

Thank you for the discussion space GK, much appreciated.

kaniths, Sep 11, 2018

kaniths, Sep 11, 2018

#27

Viswamitra, GeetaKashyap, SinghManisha and 3 others like this.
Sep 11, 2018 #28

GeetaKashyap IL Hall of Fame

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kaniths said: ↑

The first step is the 'coming out' process. Many do not dare to disclose, instead choose to remain in the safety closet due to fear of being disowned by their own family and close friends, for the shame and humiliations they might face outside. In other cases, despite the care and understanding, there is a lack of open support due to peer pressure from the society. Scrapping the law hopefully encourages more people of fluidity to identify boldly who they are, now that there is constitutional back up. To change the law and to change mentalities are different things. In a country where honor killing against hetero love marriages is still prevailing to our horrors, social acceptance of LGBTQ+ love is going to take a while. Nevertheless a progressive step towards inclusion and equality.

Good riddance, my congratulations. Celebrate Love (alike).

Thank you for the discussion space GK, much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Thanks, kaniths, for your analytical feedback. I agree 100% with you.

GeetaKashyap, Sep 11, 2018

GeetaKashyap, Sep 11, 2018

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Sep 11, 2018 #29

Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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GeetaKashyap said: ↑

Episode 3 of Satyamev Jayate looks at the unfounded perceptions and biases that the LGBT – Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender – communities in India have to battle.

Please view this video to get an idea about Section 377.

Full text of Supreme Court's verdict on Section 377 on September 6, 2018

Supreme Court verdict on Section 377 on September 6, 2018.

**************************************************************************

How I wish, the world had only 2 sexes and that both were equal? How I wish, everybody abided by the law or there was no need for a law at all? How I wish, everyone respected each other and followed a live and let live policy? How I wish, there was no discrimination practised in any sphere of life? A utopic world is a mirage. We live in a world that has survived on exploitation and discrimination in the name of religion, caste, colour, race, region and sex.

Who made these rulebooks? Obviously someone smarter, powerful, selfish, dominant… Agreed that to keep a system working in a disciplined manner certain rules and regulations are necessary but what happens when the rules are draconian, exploitative or discriminatory? Who will safeguard the interests of the minority or the suppressed? Is it wrong to demand a rightful share of dignity?

Well, some people seem to think so! The ‘normal’ people had such apprehensions and reservations before allowing women to seek education, work to earn, seek a way out of suffocating marriages and even have equal voting rights! When democracy came into being in Athens, only slaves and women were kept away as ineligibles!

(Some women in the Isle of Man (geographically part of the British Isles but not part of the United Kingdom) gained the right to vote in 1881[1]. Though it did not achieve nationhood until 1907, the colony of New Zealand was the first self-governing country in the world in which all women had the right to vote in, but not to stand for, parliamentary elections in 1893, followed closely by the colony of South Australia in 1894 (which, unlike New Zealand, allowed women to stand for Parliament).[2] In Sweden, conditional women's suffrage was granted during the age of liberty between 1718 and 1772.[3]

In 1906, the autonomous Grand Duchy of Finland, which became the republic of Finland, was the first country in the world to implement truly universal full suffrage, i.e. both active and passive suffrage, by being the first country in the world to give women full political rights, i.e. the rights both to vote and to run for office. It was the second country in the world and the first in Europe to give women the right to vote.[4][5] The world's first female members of parliament were elected in Finland the following year. In Europe, the last jurisdiction to grant women the right to vote was the Swiss canton of Appenzell Innerrhoden (AI), in 1991; AI is the smallest Swiss canton with c. 14,100 inhabitants in 1990.[6]Women in Switzerland obtained the right to vote at federal level in 1971,[7] and at local cantonal level between 1959 and 1972, except for Appenzell in 1989/1990,[8] see Women's suffrage in Switzerland. In Saudi Arabia women were first allowed to vote in December 2015 in the municipal elections.[9] Ref:Timeline of women's suffrage - Wikipedia)

HIV was first detected in India in 1986. But almost for the next one decade, the general awareness was virtually nonexistent. I remember when HIV made its National presence felt with a lot of Government sponsored advertisements and articles, sometimes in 1995-97, the kind of panic we all went through! I remember discussing at length how the world would come to an end, I remember men wondering about their immediate concerns like the haircut and shave! The neighbourhood centre point-the Barbershop/ Saloon seemed like an untouchable centre! But with awareness and knowledge trickling in, that fear has now vanished! Today any surgical procedure mandatorily requires an HIV test! OMG!

The current ruling of the Indian Supreme court has decriminalized only the consensual sex between adults. That means, it has allowed people of alternative sex to practice their orientation and lead their lives with dignity, without any sort of discrimination.

"LGBT Community has same rights as of any ordinary citizen. Respect for individual choice is the essence of liberty; LGBT community possesses equal rights under the constitution.

Criminalising gay sex is irrational and indefensible," said Chief Justice Dipak Misra, who headed the five-judge bench hearing the case.

It has kept pedophilia, bestiality and such aberrations out of this ambit. This is what I have understood from my brief reading. Since I compiled this article in haste, if I have missed out anything, that we, the normal people, have to worry about, please feel free to educate all.

Even in animals scientists have noted the occasional alternate sexual orientation. There have been many scientific studies done on this subject and it has been categorically declared that it is not a mental illness or a fashionable trend. Only those people with biological disposition indulge in these alternate sexual behaviours. So, ‘normal’ people can relax for now.

“The LGBTQ communities are making a concerted and unified effort to fight Section 377 and get it off the statute books. First, we made it very clear that we wanted to just 'read down' the Section to keep "consensual sexual relations between two consenting adults in private" out of the purview of Section 377. This was because we were very concerned that the Section was utilised to prevent sexual abuse of children and we wished to protect children.

However, after the POSCO Act* was passed, all sexual abuse of children is handled very competently under this law. We, therefore, don't need Section 377 at all. And hence our new demand is Section 377 needs to be abolished as any kind of un-consensual sex is now well defined under the new rape laws.

…The Supreme Court recognising the Right to Privacy where 'privacy' included sexual orientation gave us immense hope. It was that glimmer of hope that we are now following with great sincerity and hope that the constitutional bench hears our pleas sympathetically. We are now armed with a huge amount of data and grass root experience working with gay men and other LGBT across Mumbai metro and India under the Global Fund programmes Pehchaan and Diva. So yes, the Supreme Court judgment on privacy has been a catalyst for us to jump into the fray.

…The Humsafar Trust (HST) works on various issues faced by the LGBTQ community — legal issues; crisis situations with families; cheating, extortion, blackmail and violence faced by the LGBTQ community due to the very real and imminent abuse of law under Section 377. Since 2010, the HST Crisis team has addressed 83 crises cases in Mumbai. Of these 83, six cases involved an adult, homosexual male being blackmailed by the police under the threat of Section 377. In 12 cases, adult, homosexual males were threatened with false accusations under Section 377 — they were victims of extortion by ordinary persons, with the amount asked for going up to Rs 1,00,000.

An online peer-reviewed research paper of HST revealed that around 57 percent of 448 MSM (men having sex with men) and TG (trans, gay) respondents reported fear of IPC 377 with 37 percent having experienced victimisation within the last 12 months at the time of the survey. The chief perpetrators were persons posing as potential partners who often initiated meetings with the intention to blackmail gay and bisexual males, sometimes with the connivance of the police. The research further revealed that of 16 cases of violence and discrimination the HST crisis team handled in the immediate aftermath of the full reinstatement of Section 377 in December 2013, only five persons sought any legal recourse.

A 2011 HST study on the impact of the decision of the Delhi High Court reported that participants felt more comfortable being themselves and open about their sexuality. However, after the December 2013 Supreme Court ruling, 54 percent of participants believed that the change in law was a major setback to the community (as per our 2016 study, Understanding the Impact of the Supreme Court judgment on Section 377 on LGBTQ Communities). While the decision of the Delhi HC significantly lessened if not eliminated discrimination, harassment and violence against LGBTQ persons by civilians and the police alike, the new findings (showed that) in the aftermath of the 2013 SC decision, harassment and violence not only significantly increased but also lead to blackmail. Around 41.2 percent of the participants had been subjected to blackmail or knew someone who had faced extortion.

HST conducted a study in 2017 with the transgender community in three cities (Mumbai, Delhi and Bengaluru) assessing their needs and situation: 59 percent of transgenders experienced violence from families, partners and police. HST has nurtured Umang, a support group of lesbian, bisexual and transpersons (LBT), and done a literature review of documented cases of violence against LBT between 2016 and 2017. The review details lesbian couples being harassed/dissuaded from staying together using Section 377. Between 2017 and 2018, HST — through Umang — handled four cases of lesbian couples facing harassment from police and their families for wanting to be in a same-sex relationship.”

Ref: SC judgment on privacy was catalyst: Humsafar Trust's Ashok Row Kavi on petition to quash Section 377 - Firstpost

*POSCO Act: Protection of Children from Sexual Offences Act (POCSO) - Arpan NGO

*****************************************END*****************************************
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To comprehend what is it about I had to read numerous times, voluminous data in google and the news paper including THE HINDU.
2. Yes I agree with the views of @kaniths in toto - a step forward but a long way to go before society accepts them as they are I mean orientation to remain lesbian or gay or bi or queer.
3. The news paper reports among Indian states, UP remains at the top for maximum number of arrest under the IPC sec 377. Probably it was more remunerative and or lucrative for some. It is now bound to diminish if not eliminated.
4. Off shoots to this 5-0 judgement is difficult to imagine right now but time alone would answer it. Media and government for maintain. Neutral stand till the day of judgement. Political Parties too except communist (Marxist) chosen to remain fence sitting.
5. During my tenure in erstwhile Bombay now Mumbai, every Sunday morning I used to see the eunuchs dressed like angels with all embellishment and accessories with clap of their hand demand money and would not accept anything less than a fiver. I have seen them in box as a group watching movies at aurora cinema at matunga, king’s circle. I have seen them escorting an accident victim to hospital.
6. Once I was at the wheels awaiting my friend from hotel on a Sunday. A group of eunuchs encircled my jeep and demanded money. The person demanding was almost breathing over my shoulder.. I told boss would be coming shortly. Next moment my friend JK came there hesitantly wanted to TAKE U turn. But they caught him and he took out his stout purse from back pocket of his trouser. The leader of the gang snatched the purse from him and taken out just two ten rupee notes from it though it contained several denominations of currency. The gang all together said “Dhanya Vadh” while the leader returned the purse to JK. A STUNNED JK & I were staring as the gang approached another parked vehicle all clapping their hands. At another city, there was separate queue for male and female for purchase show ticket. A group of three eunuchs ignored the queue for men & demanded tickets at the counter. Some one in queue protested whence one of them answered back there is no separate queue for them!
7. Great wow post From you - quite a work for doctoral thesis! Hats off to you and other active readers and their meaningful contribution. I enjoyed reading them all.
Thanks and Regards.
God Bless all creation equally and just and RIGHT.

Last edited: Sep 11, 2018

Thyagarajan, Sep 11, 2018

Thyagarajan, Sep 11, 2018

#29

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Sep 12, 2018 #30

GeetaKashyap IL Hall of Fame

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Thyagarajan said: ↑

To comprehend what is it about I had to read numerous times, voluminous data in google and the
Click to expand...

Thyagarajan Sir,
The Hindi channel video that I have posted gives quite a good idea, in brief. Amir Khan's video essentially makes one understand and sympathise. The other article is for those who want to understand in totality. As you pointed, I too think unless one wants to understand the total legal ramifications and implications, it can be quite cumbersome to go through the entire material.

Thyagarajan said: ↑

a step forward but a long way to go before society accepts them as they are I mean orientation to remain lesbian or gay or bi or queer.
Click to expand...

Somewhere a beginning had to be made and at least after 71 years of India's independence a step forward has been taken. Let's wait and watch, how the society changes.

Yes, Mumbai has a huge number of eunachs and many of them are South Indians! According to a friend, a large number of Kannadiga and Marathas are the castrated kind; the devotees of Soundatti Yellamma. There are also some false kind, who are there to make some easy money off begging. The North Indian culture believes that their blessings work. Perhaps this encouragement makes them forcibly extract money from the families of newborns, newly weds etc.

Unless they are loud, they may not get a chance in this cruel world. Sometime back, I read that the metro in Tamilnadu tried to hire them in large numbers. But the locals were unhappy and refused to rent them houses etc. Finally in frustration, they quit the jobs and went back to their traditional ways. In between there were reports that some banks tried to hire them for loan recovery!

Yet there are some who have become activists, academicians and politicians!

Thanks for being here and sharing your thoughts.

Last edited: Sep 12, 2018

GeetaKashyap, Sep 12, 2018

GeetaKashyap, Sep 12, 2018

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