SHE - Episode 11

Malathijagan · Jul 10, 2007

This time I should say "Hats off to you!" Point by point you have validated counter-arguments and they seem perfectly acceptable. Regarding women having high place in society in the Vedic era, I have also read in the story of Veda Vyasa that even his sister was inducted into wearing the sacred thread (Poonul) which goes to prove that women did enjoy equal rights in society.
You do make your opponents defenseless with your well informed knowledge!
"In face with my very little exposure to our religious scriptures, I should say that our culture was at its finest during the Vedic period." That is too much of a humility! With the number of examples you have quoted I am sure you must be well read in the scriptures too. The maturity with which you handle the feedbacks does show the extent of your knowledge.
I just stand admiring you and the postings here with the ignorance of a child.

Malathijagan · Jul 10, 2007

God was kind enough to save this country when we exploited our womenfolk. God saved this country when women were allowed to alight the funeral pyre in the name of sati. God saved this country when the law permitted a man to have many wives. God saved this country when men set up chinnaveedu and claimed it as a status symbol. God saved this country when prostitution flourished in all religious centres and there was a dedicated 'devadasi' community for the oldest profession.
Having been so kind all along, I don't think God will take weapons in his hand seeing the difference in orientation in less than 1% of the population.
Excellent Reply!

Malathijagan · Jul 10, 2007

Besh! Besh! sariyaana potti! Go Ahead! I am enjoying it all!

Tamildownunder said: ↑

Dear varalotti,

I am sorry to say that in defending your support for lesbionism you have made lots of assumptions.

Firstly, you have assumed that opposition to lesbionism is opposition to women's liberty or denying equal rights to them.

Secondly, you have assumed that opposition to lesbionism is supporting prostitution or chinnavedu or sati.

Thridly, while condemning the perversions of men you glorify the perversion of women in lesbionism. They are far from the truths.

You have brought out beautifully excerpts from upanishads to show that equality to women's rights were there in those days and it only got deteriorated in course of time in male dominated society. True words indeed. But, in supporting lesbionism as a natural thing, can you please find excerpts from the same upanishads that such acts were permitted?

I am very happy and proud to see that you, who has been living abroad for quite sometime have, are so anxious to protect our ancient culture and hoary traditions.

I am anxious to protect our ancient culture only after living abroad (in more than one country) and having seen the evil effects of the practice of these acts which even the westerners call as experimentation. As gayathrir has rightly pointed out it is the children who are the sufferers in these things and no society can be healthy with 'children in tears' ( as Cheeniya has beautifully written about it). I think you have not gone through the link I presented in this forum in my another post where a detailed analysis of these experimentations and their failures have been brought out. I repeat the link here.

Feminist View of Motherhood, Marriage, and Career Hillary Proclaims a Daycare 'Crisis' -- December 1997 Phyllis Schlafly Report

I am sure no woman on earth will say no to motherhood or having an identity of a mother. In the practice of lesbionism achieving motherhood is not possible and ofcourse, you may argue that artificial insemination or test tube babies can solve this problem. But, the fact is that those who resort to lesbionism also tend to develop a hatred for men ( or is it that hatred for men have forced them into lesbionism?) which is as bad as the denying of equal rights to woman. One wrong thing cannot be undone by another wrong thing.

A few of us write with their left hands. They are not perverts.

I only had a hearty laugh at to what extent you go to support lesbionism by comparing it with left-hand writting. Do you advocate that indulgence in lesbionism should be a 'bayon haath ki khel' for women?.

My theory is that when we started dominating our women, when we grabbed our women's rightful place from them, we became weak as a culture and a nation. Then foreign invaders came in and started ruling our country. A culture that does not respect 50% of its members is bound to suffer like this

Again this argument goes to show to what extent you can twist history in support of your argument in favour of lesbionism. Foreign invaders came to India not because of a weaker society, but a weaker country ruled by small small kings who were fighting among themselves.These infights among them had prevented from developing weapons of the day and when foreign invaders fought with guns and rifles our kings fought them with swords and bow-arrows ( facts which are beautifully brought out by our President Abdul Kalam).

Prostitution has been there from time immemmorial. It is acknowledged as the oldest profession. Men happily engaged in the perverse activity of seeking pleasure from another woman. Did the society fall?

Unfortunately, prostituion was brought by religions in the form of Devdasis and men exploited it for seeking pleasure. But, God has made the constitution of man and woman different and so men were getting away with such perverse acts. No one will support prostitution and when I saw the movie, 'Water' in which this nafarious act has been portrayed, I literally cried in Melbourne theater.

Did the society fall?

There have been many litreatures ( 'Silapathikaram' in Tamil where our city of madurai gets burnt down for example) to show how prostitution has affected the society.

Finally, I would like to reiterate that instead of seeking solutions to evils in our culture like the practice of sati from within (like Raja Ram Mohanrai did), we need not try to adopt an alien culture and one wrong thing like Sati cannot be undone by another wrong thing like lesbionism.

Regards,

TDU
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Kamla · Jul 10, 2007

I must join Malathi here and say it was and is an excellent repartee Varalotti!

Yes Malathi, do take over the UN)

L, Kamla

Tamildownunder · Jul 10, 2007

Dear varalotti,

You have ended your response to my post 'Defence rests my Lord'.

I start here saying, ' There is no case my Lord. If an impression is created of a case by me, I withdraw it my Lord'.

You may say I have chickened out. But, I feel it is better than getting my head bashed against a stone wall since you are having an overwhelming support of ladies in a ladies' forum and I don't want to become the laughing stock.

I was inclined to quit the forum since I find I am a mis-fit here and also I should not be a spoil-sport. Added to that I face the ignomity of getting snubbed by a junior ilite. But, unfortunately I have started two serial stories ( Taking clue from you as 'Puliyai paarthu poonai choodu pottukitta maathiri) and so Ladies, please bear with me. I may hang around to complete them.

If I have antagonised anyone, my apologies to them.

Once again reiterating,

There is no case or the case is withdrawn, My Lord.

Regards,

TDU

Rashi · Jul 10, 2007

Dear TDU,
I just wanted to apologize to you if I have insulted you in my comments. I was just angry the way you were judging me through my comments. If you felt insulted by me I sincerely apologize to you and say that it was not intentional.
But, I would like to say that this is a discussion forum, where people are going to argue and bring out their point of view. If everybody agrees, I don’t know how the world would turn up. All the members are entitled to their views and comments and there are always two sides of a coin…
Also, I have read a couple of your other posts and poems. Your poems are really good (the ones in English, the tamil ones I did not understand). I would like to encourage you to keep posting but, please no more name calling.
Thank you,
Rashi

Tamildownunder · Jul 10, 2007

Dear Rashi,

I must also apologise to you if I had used harsh words in my posts addressed to you. Like you I too got disturbed over this issue. But, now I find it is all meaningless and the arguments may create only unpleasantness.

Regards,

TDU

Kamla · Jul 11, 2007

Dear TDU,

Sorry for butting in when it is no business of mine!
I have read all your opinions and outbursts and criticisms here. I may or may not agree with you. That is not important. What is important is that all of us have equal rights to voice our thoughts and feelings in this open forum, as long as we do it with a certain decorum and friendliness. Let us hope and wish that we are all mature adults and can handle difference of opinions with grace and tolerance. The world will become a boring place if all held the same One opinion on Everything. To a certain extent, it may achieve the much needed World Peace I guess! But is it not a wishful thinking? And all of us know that it is never going to happen
So, please do not feel that your opinions are misunderstood here. They are interesting and everyone of us are trying to reach a little above us and try to learn from each other and widen our understanding of the world around us.
Don't quit. Stay and argue with all your might. Let us learn from each other's thoughts.
I have always enjoyed your writings and experiences that you portray so well.

Greetings,
Kamla

It was heartwarming to read the last exchange between Rashi and TDU...Way to Go!:-D

Tamildownunder said: ↑

Dear varalotti,

You have ended your response to my post 'Defence rests my Lord'.

I start here saying, ' There is no case my Lord. If an impression is created of a case by me, I withdraw it my Lord'.

You may say I have chickened out. But, I feel it is better than getting my head bashed against a stone wall since you are having an overwhelming support of ladies in a ladies' forum and I don't want to become the laughing stock.

I was inclined to quit the forum since I find I am a mis-fit here and also I should not be a spoil-sport. Added to that I face the ignomity of getting snubbed by a junior ilite. But, unfortunately I have started two serial stories ( Taking clue from you as 'Puliyai paarthu poonai choodu pottukitta maathiri) and so Ladies, please bear with me. I may hang around to complete them.

If I have antagonised anyone, my apologies to them.

Once again reiterating,

There is no case or the case is withdrawn, My Lord.

Regards,

TDU
Click to expand...

varalotti · Jul 11, 2007

Dear TDU,

I must thank you from the depths of my heart for making this thread hot and interesting. The vehemence in your arguments made them very lively. And I am happy to acknowledge that for a "Vara Looti" like me you are the most apt balancing force.

I will be looking forward to your arguments in the future episodes as well. If I got carried away in my arguments and had hurt you in the process, I offer my heartfelt apologies.

Don't worry, TDU, you have a lot more to argue with the coming episode SHE 12 which will be up on air in about 36 hours from now.

regards,

varalotti · Jul 11, 2007

Dear Malathi, Kamla, Raashi and All,

Thanks for your very active participation. In fact your presence in this forum made it the way I like it to be - a very active discussion board where no holds are barred and not a mushy mutual admiration society operating under the "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" concept.

I have been known to give shocks quite frequently. I have been accused of marketing gimmicks to promote my forum. In this context I hate to tell you this, but I have to. SHE 12 will be even more controversial. So brace yourselves up for another round of arguments and discussions.

My one request to all of you is this. If we are friends before we start an argument or a discussion, we should be much closer friends, when we end it. Have this mind before formulating your posts.

I learnt from a very senior member of this site (I don't want you to even guess who the person is, because you will find out ha ha ha) that another very senior member (not necessarily reckoned from the date of entry, again I think you can guess who the person is) has dubbed me as Rajnikant of this site. With a heart full of gratitude I take this compliment as the blessings of that member.

Looking forward to the continued, enthusiastic, vociferous participation of you all. After it is going to be at the most another six episodes.

regards,