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rule for man, rule for woman

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by Huma, Mar 24, 2007.

  1. Varloo

    Varloo Gold IL'ite

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    Hai Mathu,
    that is the question many many women are asking, with no answers from anywhere.
    My mother always used to differentiate between boys and girls and had a very strong opinion of what girls should do and not do. I was very much against against all these and used to argue with her and get her curse.
    About the symbols, in the olden days, it was the hubby who wore the metti and not the wife. In those days, the women walked with down cast eyes, so metti on the toes of men to show they are married and mangalsutra on the neck of the women (man walks with his head high). Even their dress showed their stature- in the Brahmin community only married men wore panchakacham style dhothi and women the madisar. Also the men wore poonal (the sacred thread) differently after marriage. As the men did not wear shirt, the thread could be seen and thus know if he was married or not. A woman can perform the agnihothram with any other brahmin if her husband was out of home. But a man cannot do that with out his wife's presence in the house. How's that?
    Incidently, the Vedas say that a man with out wife cannot perform Yagas or such poojas. But all these have been changed according to our conveniece in the due course of time.
    And the men (Brahmin men) are supposed to do many nithya karmas (daiy duties) where as the women are supposed to cook for the family -that itself is equal to performing a yaga.
    I , for one, am not for the superstitions such as wearing manjal thread, metti, kumkum etc. What ever is to happen, will happen.
     
  2. varalotti

    varalotti IL Hall of Fame

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    Will I be Welcome Here?

    Most Gracious Ladies,

    This discussion is quite interesting. And the question was raised as early as 1976 when K.Balachandar directed the movie Manmatha Leelai. I dont remember exactly but I think the heroine will make her husband wear something similar to the mangal sutra. She will tell him that when you embrance other women this will hurt you and make you realise that you are married. (The hero, Kamal, will be loafing around with many women in that movie)

    I have a few points to offer in this regard. Please dont think that I am chauvinistic. This is just history and I am not saying whether this is right or wrong. In the olden days polygamy was allowed. One man can marry many women. But not the other way round. In fact polygamy was abolished only in the late 50s and early 60s. You will be suprised to know that even in the US, in the olden days, a man could marry as many women as he can. The founder of Mormon movement had many wives. Irving Wallace has written a beautiful non-fiction book "The Twentyseventh Wife" where he describes the lives of the many women married to the Mormon leader. It is the 27th wife who rebels against the law and is instrumental in bringing in monogamy into the US law and society.

    Given that kind of a social set-up the men wanted other men to know that the women had already been taken. Hence she had tell-tale marriage signs on her. On the other hand no such signs were needed for men as they can marry any number of times. So there was no mangal sutra for men.

    Since we are following marriage customs which are a few hundred years old we have this set-up even today. And movies (especially the Tamil movies) fuelled this "thaali sentiment" making the symbol more sacred than what it sought to represent.

    And the kind of cruelty they inflict on widows - removing the mangal sutra, the flowers and bindi.... that makes me detest all those symbols.

    Hats off to you Mythili for not wearing any of the marriage symbols. Marriage is based on real love shared between the spouses and does not need any of these external symbols for its support. And hats off to you again that what others viewed as pain and weakness, you have reckoned as privilege.

    I envy women only for one thing. The motherhood. I can do so many things. But I can never never be a mother. I can shower love on my daughter, talk to her, counsel her, guide her, but there are times when she needs only her mother. Period. I just give way for my wife to step in.

    Menstrual pain and the pangs of child birth are but a little price you women pay for that great privilege.

    Regards,
    sridhar
     
  3. Huma

    Huma Silver IL'ite

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    hi folks
    i am just complaining abt periods pain because i have severe one for at least one full week each month and bleeding a lot. that's why i was comparing men and woman,i agree that we, women r capable of great things. for Mythilli and Mathu what will u do if ur husband insist that ur wearing mangalam sutran and bindi? i got odd look if i not got them. my mother who is a widow said that only the person like hers who get away with no wearing bindi and mangalam. of course i agree its every person choice to wear it or not but even the europeen women got her wedding ring on the finger.
    bye:yes:
     
  4. safa

    safa Bronze IL'ite

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    Hi,
    I also had the same doubt regarding thali and sindhooram. I am a Muslim and we do not wear any such symbols to make others understand we are married.
    I liked Mythili's reply.
    Sridhar's reply cleared some doubts, but let me ask one thing, are these rules man made?
     
  5. Shanvy

    Shanvy IL Hall of Fame

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    Nice question. nice replies.

    It is not necessary to wear mangalsutra /bhindi's. today i have seen people just removing the mangalsutra if it does not go with the outfit. Like sridhar has mentioned the media... has given it more....

    Bindi...it is a nice creation. makes you look beautiful (again views differ.)
    The dot worn on the forehead is a sign that one is a Hindu. In olden days, all Hindu men and women wore these marks, and they both also wore earrings. The bindi represents the third eye of spiritual sight, which sees things the physical eyes cannot see. The forehead dot is a reminder to use this spiritual vision to perceive and better understand life's inner workings -- to see things not just physically, but with the "mind's eye" as well. There are lot of people other than hindus who love to wear the bindi (a.k.a the cool dot.). Just keep on touching the dot with your finger closing your eyes, and experience the inner eye....

    I am proud to be a woman.

    Love,
    shanthi

     
  6. Mathu

    Mathu Senior IL'ite

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    Hi Huma,
    Well am lucky enough to have a husband who understands what am feeling and never force me to do anything which i don't want to.Infact he learns vedham and all.But he never insists that i should wear a thali or metti.It was at first difficult for me to make him understand since we were living with In-Laws and they are a very very orthodox Tam-Bram family...But periodic discussions and arguements over these matters made him think that am also telling some thing fair enough.

    Even my father is like him.But the good thing about my dad is he will never force his policies on others including me and my brother.So am grown up to be an independent girl.I never wanted to give up my individuality for the sake of others.Having said this i didn't mean that we should not adjust with our husband's family or their way of living.But as long as there is mutual understanding of the thoughts of the people living together there should not be a problem.I never comment on my husband's poojas or daily rituals.So he also never force me to do such things.
    Am not an atehist by the way.I truly and fully believe in god.I always think that there is nothing we can do on our own without god's grace.But am completely against all these sentimental rituals.I beleive more in true love to human beings rather than holding on to these practices.I don't fear to say this to anyone including my in-laws.Infact they are unhappy about my way of living.But when am truthful to myself why should i bother about others.
    My final thought about this matter is, it is high time that we women start to speak up our mind.
     
  7. Huma

    Huma Silver IL'ite

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    hi mathu thanks for ur reply and i agree also abt what u said in the last line.
    bye
     
  8. Varloo

    Varloo Gold IL'ite

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    Dear Huma,
    I forgot to tell you- the famous Sri.Balakishna Sastrigal-who used to give religious discourses, has said that the thali was not said in the Vedas. It was a later addition. And the Hindu marriage is not complete with the thali only, it is complete only after the couple take the seven steps around the Agni.
    When a spouse dies, the other feels lonely- only if the couple were devoted and loved each other. That should be the feeling.
    In today's world, people do things which they want to and many do not stick on to the obselet practices. Many women who have lost their husbands wear the bindi and also wear whatever they want.More over, we put the bindi even from an early age and also the flowers. Thali and metti are the symbols we wear after marriage.
    You would be happy to know that Mrs.Meena Ramanathan, the founder of Ramanathan's Public Speaking Academy in Chennai has lost her husband some years back. But she wears beautiful silk sarees with lots of zari, 3 or 4 chunky neck chains, lots of bangles, a huge round red bindi on the forehead, large ear ornaments, thandai and kolusu on the ankles, and flowers on her hair. This on the last wish of her husband. Her motto is- have confidence and show it too thro you dress. Then you can achieve anything.
    You must console your mother and encourage her to get over these things and live well, even if your father is not there, you are there for her.
    My father passed away some years back. I was very strong and prevented such obselete customs done to the wife during that time. But my mother is very old fashioned and always says that 'she is like this', when asked to be the first to belss us. But I never give in to her and go to her first and foremost.
    Incidently, my mil is no more and my fil is alive. We are not expecting him to stay away from auspicious things or anything like that. Then why should we do this to women only?
    It is high time that we speak against such practises and try to spread awareness. The first step towards that will be not to use the word 'widow'. I have not used it thro out the post and I never use it even otherwise.
     
  9. Huma

    Huma Silver IL'ite

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    dear Varalekshmy
    first thank u for your reply.
    my mother lives with hers mother.
    i have no father and no grand-father. u cant force somebody to do something. u cant impose. i think whatever change can only happen if the person really want it and u have to support her. and not forget the background who r watching ur every move to gossip.
    i know some person who wear bindi, colour saree, and etc.... i didnt say it was wrong but why for one person is good and for another is bad when finally both have lost their partner.
    bye
     
  10. radhavenkatesh

    radhavenkatesh Silver IL'ite

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    Neither is a mans life secure in his wifes mangalsutra nor her bindi :)
    so wearing it or not is based on individuals i have seen many ladies who have never removed their thali frm their neck they feel its not gud for their husbands reason is our age old mores and taboos and cultures which run in blood of most at the same time
    many ladies do respect their thali also they feel they show their respect towards the institution of marriage
    there a few of them who wear it like a mere jewellery studded wht diamonds rubies and other precious stones and expose it also
    whn a husband dies most of the ladies willingly remove theri marks few of them dont want to and carry as they were before
    Our duty is to respect all of their feelings and carry our own will
    if ur husband wants u to wear all the symbols u have to bcz he finds solace in tht if u can argue and make him willing ur lucky
    today most of the husbands are not so demanding also
    and above all i feel all these symbols do command respect to married ladies we get a sort of paripurnatvam in our way of dressing or presenting before anyone
    if ur thali hurts u when ur in bed ur welcome to put in below ur pillow and wear it next morng :)) if u forget and ur maid finds it u wil loose atleast 20 tolas of gold (inclusive f chain etc)
    an all time saviour for money as shown in many of our films
    bye tc
     

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