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Questions on Marriage,Love,Infidelity,Monogamy and all that Jazz

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by Dovahkiin, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Dovahkiin

    Dovahkiin Silver IL'ite

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    I am a single male trying to grasp things about marriage, love, morality and all such things that I never understood. I mean I have understood such stuff from a western point of view. But the Indian point of view always baffles me.

    Let me start off this thread with a question about an affair-story:

    I was reading an old post here by a woman who had an extra-marital affair and wanted to get out of it. She was just a one-post-wonder. She was still in the affair-fog and was having feelings for her lover while also wanting to go back to her marriage. Now what interested me were, the suggestions given by the posters here. The thread is here:

    http://www.indusladies.com/forums/married-life/137451-how-get-out-extra-marital.html

    Almost every poster here told her to sweep things under the rug. Now how is that going to help?
    Although one would commend her sense of pragmatism in putting marriage ahead of love, IMHO she still is not doing it right.

    I don’t think this story can ever have a happy ending, unless she confesses. Here are my reasons:

    1. Without that she and her husband will never have a defined baseline over which they can develop a relationship. When she compared her husband with the other guy and decided he isn’t up to that mark, she has destroyed whatever baseline was in place when she married him first, and he does not know it yet. She decided that her husband is not her soul-mate even before the relationship took off (not counting the one month they were together as a relationship), and is going into the relationship with a sense of resignation. She will never be able to love him fully.

    2. And let’s suppose she does manage to pull it together without confessing and start a family with him. As a natural process, a mature love would have to spring between them (this seems highly likely to happen, given the way how she wants to rush into starting her married life afresh).How can she ever live with herself knowing that she has wronged the father of her children and her own companion in the worst possible way? Will it not become a lifetime of mental agony? I mean she is a definite train-wreck if she stays in the marriage without confession.

    Now to my actual question:

    All things I said are based on the assumption that she is a person with a conscience. But for her to manage to live a lifetime of lie without feeling a nerve-racking guilt, she must be a blend of the right amount of narcissism, selfishness and lack of concern for others. People saying that she must not confess, must have in fact safely assumed that she is such a person.

    It’s not about her story alone. The fact that almost everyone suggests that she should not confess, really makes me wonder if this is a typically Indian thing, to suppress the conscience.In my interactions with other cultures, when such a transgression occurs, I have seen many neutral friends prodding the guilty party to confess. But that is not the case here, which I take it as, people have responded on the assumption, it is easy for her to not have a conscience.

    Are Indians incapable of remorse? Not just guilt for having to keep a secret, but guilt and remorse for having done a crime? Will this person ever feel any debilitating remorse once she is out of the fog of her affair, or will she actually feel lucky to have escaped all this without getting caught?

    Re-reading the thread, I came to a realization that she might in fact be feeling guilty only about loving someone while being married and not for the fact that she fell in love with someone else. An ongoing guilt (more of an unease), which would go away once she gets over her feelings for the lover and not a permanent guilt which will be with her forever, for having strayed. And this, I am not able to accept.To me she is just the same as any normal, human being with conscience, I think she will end up requiring serious psychiatric assistance if she does not confess.Your take ladies…

    P.S: I know I write walls of text. Sorry.
     
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  2. GodIsOne

    GodIsOne Gold IL'ite

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    I would suggest not to confess, if the relationship involves kids. I am a Mom and I know how a kid would feel if the parents had to separate. The living in hell and guilt is a punishment for wandering out. You need to take it for your kids.

    If it does not involve kids, then have some respect for your spouse and walk out of the relationship.
     
  3. Ragini25

    Ragini25 Platinum IL'ite

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    I have also read threads here where people say "I have 3 years gap in my career...what do I do?"
    And I read answers that state "Just cook up something and put it on the Resume/CV"

    There seems to be a tendency to do "whatever" as long as it may lead to certain outcome.
    Hide things, tell lies - and just not bother about it?

    Is that an Indian thing? Asian thing? developing countries thing? or omnipresent?
    Perhaps omnipresent to some extent at least. Are human beings basically selfish and self-centered? If so, whats all with the relationships - are they a means to an end?
     
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  4. mp1234

    mp1234 Gold IL'ite

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    It is wrong to label Indians as incapable of remorse or guilt .
    The responses which made you think happen to belong to only a certain section .

    Well,you are absolutely right the marriage cannot be happy unless the main character in the story confesses.
    I think suppressing your conscience and staying with a lie for your whole life is HELL.

    I believe marriage is a sacred institution which does not have any place for lies,betrayal,mistrust etc.
    There are many other like-minded Indians who believe the same and would come out clean with their spouses or better-halves.

    Nice thread
     
  5. LunaDoveDesigns

    LunaDoveDesigns Silver IL'ite

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    1. Somebody plays Skyrim :)

    Now, about your thread.

    I don't know if it's a "typically Indian" thing; I've known plenty of western folk who outright ignore the conscience they were born with, and some I suspect of having no conscience at all. I've also known plenty who prod the guilty party to NOT confess, because it will just make a mess. Personally, I think avoiding an affair is the best course of action, but if someone has one anyway, they should confes to their spouse/partner. Even if the are kids, and even if it will lead to a divorce. Because let's face it, sooner or later, everything comes to light, and marriage is supposed to be based on trust. When it comes out that there has been infidelity, trust goes right out the window. Some people - myself included - find it almost impossible to fully trust someone again once trust has been broken, especially on such an intimate level. Others can forgive and rebuild trust.

    Again, I've known plenty of white people who don't feel guilty at all about what they've done. In some, thankfully more rare, cases, it's because they really aren't capable of feeling remorseful or guilty because there is something wrong in their brains, and others because they were raised in an "entitlement" culture, where they grew up believing that they were allowed to do whatever they wanted with few consequences.

    I really don't think this can be applied only to Indians. I've seen it across cultures; it seems to be more of a "human" problem to me.
     
  6. riya123

    riya123 Gold IL'ite

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    OP should ideally tell that to her husband. Forgiving or not should be up to her husband!!
     
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  7. Dovahkiin

    Dovahkiin Silver IL'ite

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    I am sorry it took me so long to make a reply. Although I had read the replies I just needed to process my thoughts before replying, lest I post all the clutter in my mind.

    I'll also make it clear here that I chose to make a post about an affair at the outset because, to critically analyze a subject, it needs to be studied at its lowest point and for a marriage the lowest point is adultery (divorce does not count, because that is not the lowest point, but the end point).

    So, getting back to the subject I can see that there are two different viewpoints over an adulterer's confession.
    1. The pragmatic approach of rug-sweeping with the fate of the children/ family in mind.
    2. Other the idealistic approach of moral/ethical considerations - you've transgressed already, why perpetuate your sinning by concealing it?

    Let us reconcile both approaches, because the best approach lies somewhere in the middle.

    Now let us look at this from a pragmatist's lens and see what could go wrong and find out how real is the possibility of things going wrong:

    The pragmatist, would suggest that the adulterer not confess. The silent suffering of living a lie is Karma's way of getting back at the adulterer. This is in the best interests of the family.

    But is it really? The adulterer feels guilt, but still does not feel remorse. Guilt for having gone against whatever religious/moral/cultural/family values s/he had for himself/herself. But as we see in this case, the adulterer had justified to herself her decision to stray, since she was "in love". The pangs of guilt are over the secrecy and the concept of sinning. And not because it was a wrong thing to do. Deep in her heart she still believes it was the right thing to do.

    Isn't it a pity that she has to go against all her beliefs and go through so much self-flagellation and yet she does not come out as a reformed person? She will go on to live with her husband, while also thinking that her soulmate is someone else and she will always have it in the back of her mind that this is not the life that she should be living. She will probably have children with her husband, but will never completely love her husband and might never allow the natural blooming of mature love which is the norm in a long-standing marriage as opposed to the romantic love that she had in her whirlwind affair. She might even think of herself as a martyr and be self-pleased with the sacrifice that she has made for others. In short, she will live a disappointed life with an immature attitude towards love.

    After all, adulterers are not bad people, but good people doing bad things because they get caught up in the fog that makes them feel entitled. So even if she does not continue her affair, if she does not reform she is committing adultery for the rest of her life, when she justifies her past indiscretion to herself and pine for her lover to some small extent atleast everyday for the rest of her life.

    On the other hand her husband too, might have to live with someone who cannot give her fullest love to him. That is totally unfair to him too. And he may not even know it.

    And then there is the danger of re-igniting of the affair at any later point in life, even after kids have come in to the picture. I will not elaborate on this. But this poses the biggest risk

    But there is a possibility that these can be avoided if she confesses and tries to work on the marriage with her husband and see what went wrong. Or she could at least maintain a life long no-contact (which is impossible to do without raising suspicions considering her husband and lover are friends and that her husband had assigned the "friend" to take care of his wife once) and go for therapy and try to figure out what went wrong. But for these to happen she should realize that what she had was not love but just escapism during a bad time (but isn't all love escapist fantasies? We will need to discuss this later). Do you think this would happen?

    So a question to be addressed from the pragmatist viewpoint is that, is reformation and remorse possible without admission of adultery? Ladies, can you please give your opinions. Once we are done we will move on and look at the problems in the idealist approach.

    Once again, my apologies for the delay in responding and having to make such a long response :hide:


    P.S: I don't play Skyrim. My college-kid cousin does. I just watch :)
     
  8. Decentguy

    Decentguy New IL'ite

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    For someone who has 4 posts, thats pretty impressive. I read that thread and personally I feel that is fake. Parts os story did not make sense to me.

    Things like:-
    1. " She got a job abroad after 1 month". Why did she take it?
    2. " After 6 mths one weekend I went to his room". Were they living together? I guess not because in the beginning she says " We used to hangout together on weekends" That means they used to meet on weekends and my guess is they are living separately.
    3. She never posted anything again.
    Such stories are called Troll. Maybe a female male fantasy thats all.


    Neverthelsss coming back to you - I read the title of your thread "Questions on Marriage,Love,Infidelity,Monogamy and all that Jazz " but I fail to understand what is your question. This is what you have asked "Are Indians incapable of remorse? Not just guilt for having to keep a secret, but guilt and remorse for having done a crime? Will this person ever feel any debilitating remorse once she is out of the fog of her affair, or will she actually feel lucky to have escaped all this without getting caught?

    Are you asking in general ? Do one thing...browse in married forum for few days. See if that helps, hopefully you can get your answers


    As I said in one of the threads - Indus Ladies don't reflect the total Indian population in this world. So my feeling is - "stereotyping" and "generalizing" because of a thread or few threads is not the way to go. We Humans have a habit of stereotyping. Things like " All Men are same", "All kids or MIL are same" etc.


     
  9. justanothergirl

    justanothergirl IL Hall of Fame

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    Impressive post but u really need to do ur research.
    When u talk about other cultures and ur interactions with them..are u talking about real -life or forums.
    If u are talking about real-life then u are comparing apples to oranges.
    In any case..pushing things under the rug when it comes to EMA is a very common suggestion.
    Here is a link..to a very popular advice column .(oh did I mention she is not Indian :))
    Advice column: Cheating, wedding etiquette, racist children, and druggie relatives. - Slate Magazine
    Please also read the tons of comments that follow the advice column. You will get a feel for what
    the masses feel.
    Sweeping generalizations about people belonging to a race culture based on posts in forums is pretty sad indeed.
     
  10. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    When people post "should I confess" about an EMA or a past relationship, I generally advise against. It has nothing to do with Indian. In fact, that opinion was formed from some western relationship expert sites. The gist was that if a person has had an affair or fling, and does not intend to divorce spouse, telling the spouse about it to be/feel honest or to feel lighter is being selfish. it would be kinder to not tell the spouse.

    Now there could be counter arguments that the spouse who had an affair is being dishonest, the decision to continue marriage should be made by the wronged spouse, marriage cannot sustain such dishonesty or subterfuge, spouse might get to know later through others.

    But the 'do not tell the cheated spouse' advice or any debate around it has nothing to do with being Indian. It is just picking the lesser of the two evils. Given any culture, there will be people who say 'tell the cheated spouse' and those who say 'don't tell.'
     

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