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Prenup Agreement Before Wedding

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by mohini16, Feb 23, 2020.

  1. Amulet

    Amulet IL Hall of Fame

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    You must think things over..... even if it feels like over thinking.

    I noticed that his money had impressed you a little bit. That is good, if he shares it with you, and hands it over, and let you manage it. However, there is a negative side to it, especially if he does not share it with you. This would also depend on what your taxable income is.

    Here is a thought experiment for you on taxes in the USA, on the concept called "marriage penalty" in taxation. If you two were to be living separately, not married, and file taxes as two single people (your case is "head of household", coz. you are a custodial single parent), your total taxes might often work out to be smaller-- (especially when you are also making good/substantial taxable income) -- than if you two were married and file taxes jointly. You can do this math quite quickly (because the doctor had already told you his income) and see it for yourself.

    And then there is this aspect about your US visa status that is yet to be mentioned on this thread. Does your USA residency status help him adjust his H1b to something more permanent after the marriage ? Add this thought to your overthinking, and that might also throw a new light on the prenup'/future-divorce scenario, should you be married to someone whose H1b got adjusted to something more permanent with your sponsorship.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  2. 1Sandhya

    1Sandhya Platinum IL'ite

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    Prenup comes into the picture where either party has significant assets they don’t want to lose control over if marriage doesn’t work out. Especially if you live in a community property state where after marriage or 7 years of living tog everything is divided equally people do use prenups.
    He’s been married before, has assets it makes sense he is saying this. You already have a baby so this may come up with other people also.

    I couldn’t understand your second point. If you enter the marriage with a kid then You can’t force the guy to pay alimony for your kid if he’s not the biological dad. Just as if you married this guy would you say it’s fair if he says now my ex wants alimony let’s pay out of our joint account? You don’t want to be stuck paying for his ex’s and kids alimony right?

    So actually his suggestion of you keep yours I keep mine, let’s do a prenup, makes sense to me. It shows he’s thinking about this seriously and trying to figure out a way that’s fair to both. Other men may also suggest same so do talk to a lawyer about it.

    Your seem to have an ideal scenario of meeting someone who marry you, adopt your baby and take care of both for life or pay alimony if don’t work out. Such men are rare. What this doc proposed is what you will encounter in reality.

    Btw why your baby’s dad is not already paying alimony?
     
  3. MalStrom

    MalStrom Platinum IL'ite

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    Run don’t walk.
    The fact that he has abandoned his child would be enough of a red flag for me. He is making a lot of money as a doctor and seems very transactional in his approach. When someone shows you who they are believe them. It’s better you are finding out all this ahead of time. There are quality men out there. Don’t lower your standards.
    Btw, I don’t think it’s entirely reasonable to expect a future spouse to legally adopt your child. In most cases the biological parents work out custody and child support between themselves.
     
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  4. Rihana

    Rihana Finest Post Winner

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    Thanks for starting the thread, Mohini. Learnt something new - "parents not wanting to give their assets to the child’s spouse in case of lawsuits, divorces etc." A while back in another thread, I had learnt about this: Parents adding clauses to the will/trust that will ensure that if one parent dies, surviving spouse remarries, part of the dead parent's assets will pass to the children rather than simply going to the surviving spouse. This was to ensure that the surviving parent did not do injustice to children from his/her first marriage due to pressure from the new spouse.

    I think it is easier to go by trust and love till children are not involved.

    You and we don't know all the details, but on a casual examination, all the three points seem to edge toward "can be reasonable." But, if you don't have a good feeling about any of these points or the pre-nup, you should listen to what you heart and mind say.

    The 50 states will rarely allow for termination of a parent's rights. Even if both parents agree, the court will only look at what is best for the child. Giving up parental rights to avoid paying child-support is not so easy. Unless you get to know the details of their divorce settlement (actual legal documents), it is hard to decide on this.

    From the little that I have read, legally adopting spouse's child from a previous marriage comes after the man and woman have spent some time/years together (live-in or married). Once your child is legally adopted by the guy you marry, the child's biological or previous legal parent stops paying child support. From such a guy's POV, it makes sense that he will want to wait before legally adopting the child.

    Your caution is understandable, so is his. He does make decent money. The arrangement he is suggesting seems fair if not romantic and promising a happily ever after.

    You are not overthinking, rather you are trying to decide without having access to more information and not even having met him. Is it worth putting in time and emotion - given his education, doctor profession, decent income and that he is being upfront, I'd say he is worth pursing some more. But, finally, it is a personal choice -- for some a prenup can straightaway be a deal-breaker.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  5. Laks09

    Laks09 Staff Member Finest Post Winner

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    I am not either. AFAIK, for a parent to lose parental rights in my state, the other parent has to prove in court that he/she is mentally unstable and cannot be given shared custody. It is actually quite difficult to lose complete custody and visitation rights. In fact, judges know that people try to sign away their rights to not pay child support and so it’s mostly mandatory to pay child support with some visitation even if they aren’t granted primary custody. Now, there are people who don’t pay and owe thousands in child support that the other parent has to sue for but that’s another story. Even if the spouse is from a different country, the child is American and it’s never the norm to completely take away child support - unless the mental health scenario plays out.

    The scenario the guy described has happened - the country was India. A friend gave up complete parental rights because he didn’t want to pay alimony/child support or share assets.

    I’m skeptical about it happening in the US. There is more there, I wouldn’t pursue this without probing.

    The prenup seems like a fair thing to ask since he’s a high earner and mostly wants to safeguard his income.

    If he really doesn’t want to take up your child’s care that’s probably because he isn’t sure about it. I would proceed only with abundant caution if someone is unsure about my child.

    Are you well employed? Do you have a citizenship? Be careful who you are connecting with. I was told to caution the college going kid about the scheme to hook citizens because there is no other way to get a GC these days. You should be cautious too.
     
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  6. BhumiBabe

    BhumiBabe Platinum IL'ite

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    I personally think Pre-nups are a great idea, in love or arranged marriages.

    I am surprised by the backlash, considering the transactional nature of Indian marriages, it’s actually a smart way to bring clarity regarding how assets will be dealt with. I don’t see it as an issue regarding trust, but making things transparent. I think it’s also a good way to see if a person thinks fairly, in general. When there is actual conflict, they do not, and a legal document binding them to their word can potentially prove to be invaluable. People may not agree with me, but this protects the women too.

    There are people who have given up their right (legal custody) of their child. It does happen, and I think it’s tragic. I was encouraged to do so, but luckily I refused during my separation. Maybe this guy felt like he was able to continue being a father to his child from a distance. It might seem like a red flag, so I think the circumstances should be examined some more (though I don’t exactly know how). I don’t actually know how he has given up parental rights, I’ve never needed to research this.

    Adopting your child... something like this takes time. Just because a man marries a woman with a child, does not mean he is going to act as the father of the child. This relationship is tricky and many men would hesitate to commit to this.

    I feel like you are thinking in terms of marrying this guy for the value he will bring to your life- financially, socially, security etc. He might be thinking the same thing, that this marriage is a transaction. In that case, a pre-nup is smart. If you were thinking emotionally, if you really liked this man and how he has enriched your life and perspective, I can see how you may be offended by his suggestion for a pre-nup. But take it as your safety too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  7. 1Sandhya

    1Sandhya Platinum IL'ite

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    I think what he said is possible. The dirty secret behind all this enforcement of alimony and custody rules etc etc is that ultimately the courts don’t want the kid to become a public charge ie., have to be supported by the state. All the blah blah about child’s wellbeing safety etc at its root has only one aim which is to ensure one or both parents or family members take responsibility for the kid and its support doesn’t fall on the taxpayers.

    As long as that won’t happen they will give leeway. The scenario you describe is more common when both parents and kid are USCs.

    In this case the ex was on h4, so not a citizen probably an Indian. She must have said in court that if dad renounces all the rights she will take to India and raise him and not ask for alimony or public assistance. And shown all her India assets as ability to give him a good life. Since he didn’t contest it and agreed to revoke all his rights judge would have allowed it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  8. Laks09

    Laks09 Staff Member Finest Post Winner

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    Aah. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
     
  9. mohini16

    mohini16 Silver IL'ite

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    Thanks all for taking time and replying to my thread,
    I learned something new I wasn't aware of and Some points I want to clarify

    I don't even live in US, I travel for work occasionally so I don't have any visa status there, if he gets GC in future then I will benefit from him as his spouse not him.

    Second point about my expectation of him adopting my child, I just assumed by default whoever I marry that guy would be her legal father,
    I'm still new to this "marriage with kids" concept, so now after reading all your replies it makes sense that I will be her Only custodial parent and he can adopt in future if he wants to otherwise I can't force him.
    Just my concern here, I don't want my child to feel left out in future like only her mom(Me) is doing all the shopping for her, only mom is paying for her education, activities and toys etc.
    Thats why I wanted guy to equally participate, I know it's not possible to love someone else's child like your own but I don't want my child feeling like outsider in future if I go for one more kid with this man.
    One point to mention here Guy told me he suggested his divorce lawyer to apply for parental rights waiver, so this female does not come back in usa in near future even to make him meet kid and he closed chapter forever.


    Now coming to third main point of "Prenup agreement"
    If I have to do prenup with him then I will give my life in taking care of his house, his kids(he wants kid of his own) , his parents (they will come and visit or even stay, they are US citizens), cook for him, clean and maintain his house, have S* and work (my job/business) and if divorce happens then just leave with whatever money I made, I don't have any rights over the house, properties or whatever.
    And if I have one more kid with him then 50/50 custody so I will be alone responsible for 2 kids (one mine and one with him) and spending my money,

    This all seems like BS to me, what am I getting in return for putting my life and time in relationship? Nothing..
    Companionship? For that I don't need to stay in his house on which I will have no right, I don't need to entertain his relatives /parents,
    I don't see logic behind Prenup, I feel rather than signing prenup and staying in such marriage, I should just work on my business /job and have relationship..
    End of the day with prenup I will be loser.

    Let me know if I'm thinking from wrong perspective, I have zero knowledge about how prenup works but what this guy told me you take what yours and I will take mine...
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  10. BhumiBabe

    BhumiBabe Platinum IL'ite

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    The prenup agreement doesn’t need to be so one sided. You are listing all the things that you are bringing into the marriage. What is he bringing in? What is he agreeing to do for the marriage? Try to understand what is “ours”, that both of you are invested in.
     

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