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Parent child relationship

Discussion in 'Parents & Siblings' started by oldgold27, Mar 24, 2009.

  1. vandannav

    vandannav Senior IL'ite

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    hi

    i agree with nandini.


    vandannav
     
  2. vidhkarthik

    vidhkarthik Bronze IL'ite

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    Very Very well said Nandini. Totally agree with what you say...
     
  3. oldgold27

    oldgold27 New IL'ite

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    Dear Nandini,

    Appreciate your inputs.

    If you read my initial post you must have noticed that my 88 year old mother lives with me and I am the primary caregiver in her old age.

    I took care of my father too. And also my inlaws. Maybe different people have a different capacity for taking on responsibility. I never had a problem looking after my parents. So you cannot generalise and say that girls cannot look after their parents.

    Traditionally in our society the sons have been looking after the parents for the simple reason that sons were living with the parents and not daughters. Daughters were in their marital homes so no one expected from them the care that was provided by the son who in most cases lived with the parents.

    However , in modern times this too is changing fast. The sons also are not living with the parents and due to distance involved are unable to provide the physical care of the aged. Today parents are getting reconciled to the fact that there is a very strong possibility that neither the son nor the daughter will be able to provide the care the elderly need. And hence, they are looking for care elsewhere.

    One thing all parents should ensure for their own good..... make yourself financially independent to be able to lead a life of dignity in old age.
     
  4. Malyatha

    Malyatha Gold IL'ite

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    Yes, it is. But this "hypocrisy" was not "invented" by our in-laws. It has been in place for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, so we're all barking up the wrong tree by making our in-laws culpable of a tradition that has been in place for centuries before they even arrived on the Planet!

    First of all, I did not see anything in Ms. Old Gold's post that said that *only* parents of sons are entitled to their children's support in their "old age". As far as I read, she mentioned "children" in general, not "sons" or "daughters".

    Secondly, Nandini, I object to your question "Have you seen ANY girl who helps her parents?" I can assure that many women help or TRY TO HELP their aging parents, including me and all three of my SILs.

    Thirdly, the simple truth of the matter - and which many daughters do not acknowledge - is this: In MANY CASES, it is OUR OWN PARENTS who do not wish to stay with us (their married daughters) or who gently turn down our offers of help, whether this help be physical or financial. This is because our parents are of the generation that is still quite submerged in patriarchy and patriarchal traditions. Our generation is probably the first of sorts where women are standing up to such "traditions", seeing no reason why males in general are superior to females. Our parents (parents of women), however, are still rooted to the past and do not agree with us in this regard. But, for some reason, FOR NO FAULT OF OURS, daughters harbor a sense of guilt that we are unable to support our parents in their old age physically or financially as if WE are being selfish and heartless.

    It is this misplaced sense of guilt that leads many married women to resent that their in-laws willingly accept, and even EXPECT, our husbands' help in THEIR old age! We ask questions such as "Don't parents of girls grow old and frail and need help, too?" etc. Yes, they do, but if they did, why do *they* CLING to old world values and refuse our help? And, secondly, just because OUR parents REFUSE OUR HELP does not mean that our in-laws should refuse our help, too, or are wrong to expect our assistance. I just don't get this thinking that I see in many of my friends and relatives by which many wives believe that if we do not or cannot help our parents (because THEY refuse our help), then we should not help our in-laws, too (even if they *want* our help).

    I've heard some DILs even say things like "My parents are in the late 60s and doing just fine. I have no brothers to support them and they take good care of themselves! So who are my in-laws fooling about being old and frail? What if they did not have a son? Then they would have managed just fine!"

    The problem with this reasoning is simple. Ifs and buts and why don't work out here BECAUSE the in-laws DO HAVE A SON! A son they gave birth to, raised and molded into the man that you married just as your parents gave birth to, raised and molded you into the fine young woman that you are today! Just as a daughter is not 'Swayambu', a son is not 'Swayambu', either. Both sons and daughters take a lot of work, love and sacrifice to raise and we should be ever cognizant of this fact. This means that we should be willing to help BOTH set of parents and, as I just mentioned above, just because one set of parents is willing and able to manage by themselves does not mean that the other set of parents has to do the same!

    The bottom line is this: You can only help those who WANT to be helped and if our parents REFUSE our help, then we cannot generalize and say that our in-laws should refuse our help, too! Of course, if our parents WANT our help and we are PREVENTED from helping our parents by our husbands and in-laws, THEN, I understand the anger and heart-ache. But, otherwise, NO. If our husbands and in-laws do NOT stand in our way of helping our parents, then we shouldn't draw comparisons that are neither justified nor fair.

    BTW, this is a general observation of what I've seen in some wives & DILs. This is not in any way directed at anyone here in particular. JMO
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
  5. arthidiva

    arthidiva Silver IL'ite

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    Dear oldGold Bow,

    Thanks for understanding my post in the right sense. Appreciate that you are sportive to see the DILs (many of us) point of view as well. You are one in a 100 MIL who appreciate your DIL for the way she runs her house. Lucky DIL :thumbsup!

    Rihana - I fully agree with you:cheers - you asked if it would be the same good comments abt the DIL if they had to live together under a roof for a significant time. Whatever little the differences are, it gets showcased only when both women are living together. I am sure even the MIL will feel her freedom being curbed when the other women is sharing her (MIL's) house and would start portraying a difficult MIL.

    Nandhini - I can see what you go through at the thought of your parents and your care & love for them. But as Malyatha said, there are lot of girls who do help their parents directly or indirectly.

    I know of daughters who has the freedom to give a portion of her earnings to her parents. At the same time, as you say there are some daughters who find it very difficult to help her parents due to in-laws creating a hue n cry on this, there are some PILs who even take the DIL full paycheck as soon as she recieves itRant.. Also I know of some couples who have the Wife's parents/ mom/ dad staying with them, the DH considers them as his parents too :), inspite of the PILs living across the city. So lets not generalise that all DIL's are restricted to help their parents or even visit their parents.
     
  6. NandiniGG

    NandiniGG Silver IL'ite

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    Hey gals,
    I think i got away from the main subject.I am sorry for that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  7. NandiniGG

    NandiniGG Silver IL'ite

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    Dear Malyatha,

    You said this hypocrisy has been in place for thousands of years.But dear any tradition whether good or bad survives because of the people follow it and those people who follow it they have some interest in it.Tradition is not a tree or a rock its made when a lot of people follow it.
    People opposed sati pratha..and lot of people are fighting against the dowry system and widow system too...but it still survives...why?because of people who want to take advantage of these traditions.
    Every tradition had some good meaning and was made with good intentions.But people molded it for taking the full advantage of it.So please don't say that its tradition...thats why it happens..because even in past good people stood up against them.
    All i want to say is..everybody has a choice whether to stood up against some tradition or follow it and most important upto what limit.
    If somebody commits a murder and say its thousands of years tradition it does not make it less a sin.Its still called a murder.(just an example)
    Its not written anywhere in our religious books that girl or girl parents are less but still people molded the tradition and everybody it his forum must have seen many examples that how they are dominated during the marriage.And of course its the fault of girl parents too but they can not take a chance with their daughter life.If they don't do it...their daughter will suffer.Still they play role in making this tradition of differentiating between girls and boys exists.We all are part of it somewhere.
    Of course all five fingers are not alike...but a lot of girls even if they are financially independent can not come forward to help their parents and that ratio is much higher than the one who do.
    Other thing is i said "doing their duties without any problems created by husband and in laws".That reduces the ratio even furthur.
    Is it written in any of our original(not modified by priests in older generations) religious books that girl should not help her parents?well..I have never read anything like that.How this notion of suppressing girls parents is even surviving then?
    This is what in this forum we have already taken pledge of ...that we will not carry silly traditions to the coming generations.
    Don't think that i am saying because girls and boys are equal a human being ..it means they should forget their responsibilities.But they should treat the other partner as equal and not any lesser.Obviously girls and boys share the responsibilitiesof household according to their capabilities and talents given by God to them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2009
  8. Malyatha

    Malyatha Gold IL'ite

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    This is not true. Many parents of girls follow this same tradition, even if it works AGAINST them! How can we explain that?

    And, what I meant by saying that this tradition has been in place for thousands of years is that our in-laws have not created it. Like everyone else, they *too* have been BRAINWASHED into accepting this "tradition" and subscribing to it, 100%

    A murder is different from a cultural tradition mainly because subjective stuff, such as "culture", "religion", "tradition" etc have no blanket rights or wrongs, whereas the law clearly spells out what is acceptable and what is not. When one commits a murder, one feels the pressure to relent and turn oneself in from Society. But, if one conforms to a "tradition", one feels no such pressure, meaning that sociological forces REWARD conformity, even if such conformity is at a huge cost to an individual or even a family!


    As above. Can you explain why even parents of women, who are often the target of such "practices", never protest these practices? No one will fight our battles for us. If we are at the receiving end of injustice, the onus is on *us* to stand up and speak out. Why didn't the parents of women ever speak up even against traditions that would oppress and torment their beloved daughters? You blame the parents of men for accepting these "traditions" because it works to their advantage but why don't you blame the parents of women who ALSO accept these "traditions" even though they HARM their children?


    Exactly. This esp. holds true for the parents of women. THEY need to set limits and stand up for both their OWN rights and for rights of their daughters, instead of blaming their sons-in-law or the sons-in-law's parents for being "unreasonable".


    Not a good enough reason, Nandini. Their daughters are going to suffer regardless. So, they need to be assertive and proactive in defending their own rights, refusing to bow down to social pressures that mark them as "inferior" to the parents of sons. NO ONE WILL FIGHT OUR BATTLES FOR US. We have to fight our own battles. There is no point in blaming the "enemy". People *will* take advantage of us if we let them, so it's up to protect our rights, rather than blaming the "opponent" for mistreating us.

    OK, now we're getting SOMEWHERE. You have finally acknowledged that *some* women help their parents, which is a HUGE step-up from your previous assertion that NO women help their parents. I have seen many families who only have daughters that are well supported by these daughters in their old age. I am beginning to believe that this depends on one's own family and community. Some communities are less oppressive than others, make fewer demands on the parents of the women, and allow great freedom to women. Some others do not. So, maybe that's why we see things so differently.


    This is a moot question. So what if this was even written in the original texts (such as Manu Shastra)? That does NOT make it sacrosanct. So, I don't buy this argument that something is acceptable just because it was written ORIGINALLY by someone, who, believe it or not, was also a human being with his or her own prejudices and weaknesses.

    Secondly, even if we buy your argument that something straight from the oldest Sanskrit texts is to be followed to a 'T', then where does this let us?

    Finally, if such things are NOT written anywhere, then why do the parents of daughters also blindly accept this? When are our parents (parents of women) going to accept PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their well-being and the well-being of the daughters they love?

    Actually, this pledge should be taken by OUR parents as well. There is no reason why they should take this horrendous treatment from our in-laws.

    And, I do not believe that anyone's talents or capabilities are "God-given". We can all be good at anything we set our hearts to be. THAT means that if we must go to work and make our own money to support our parents, that we should be it. Take the bull by its horns, so to speak!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  9. NandiniGG

    NandiniGG Silver IL'ite

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    I think i have already pointed out that most of the girl's parents do this just to keep their daughters happy and not creating any problems for their daughters in her new family.They choose to bow down to the demands of in laws.And some in laws take advantage of this situation.
    And i did not say that its the right way..because of them..other people get a chance to do the same.They indirectly encourage the other people.

    I don't deny the fact that some girl's parents too get adamant over these social norms and forget about the happiness of their children.
    That is why it is said that it takes both hands to clap.

    Anyways...my in laws are pretty orthodox about these norms...which my parents don't believe in.My parents did everything they could for me but in laws thinking is that my parents should just stop living their own life after they got me married.Their demands and expectations are really unreal and too much just with my parents jut because they are girl parents.So my parents don't bow down to them any more.That is why all this is happening.My parents had this courage to do because they have confidence in me that i am independent and can handle the things.But think about those whose daughters are not independent.
    So now you can think why parents have to bow down.
    Anyways i think we should focus on the main topic.Lets Leave this topic out here only.
    My intention is just to tell other people how i felt because of there remarks and how it affcted me emotionally and mentally so that others will not do it in their life.Its not like my in laws don't love me but you can never put conditions on love.I am not able to love them because of these difficult conditions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2009
  10. monita

    monita Platinum IL'ite

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    Dear Oldgold,
    You seem to be a very kind person. Good on you.
    About children taking care of their parents in their old age- I truly believe that most parents are taken care of in their old age.
    In our culture, parents expect their sons and DILs to take care of them and believe me eve if they have never shared a good relation with their DIL, very seldom they are left alone in their old age. And the parents who do not have sons are taken care of by the daughters.
    Now the question is when are parents too old to look after themselves and what exactly does looking after means.
    As drpreethis has pointed out, some parents as old as 50s- 60s and perfectly healthy expect to be looked after by their DILs and sons.
    In earlier days people had lots of children and the children could share the responsibilities among themselves, also the life expectancy was not so high. Now with people having fewer and fewer children and going on to live up to 80 or 90 years of age and if they become dependant on their single child ( supposing), it is going to be a huge burden on that child and his spouse.
    also, the parents who have a son assume they have a right to be looked after by their son and DIL. When they are not so old, they illtreat, abuse and do all wrong to the DIL because they know they have the right to be looked after in their old age. And when they are old, that same DIL who has been carrying so much bitterness within her does look after them, but it is out of her sense of duty and societal pressure and not out of love and respect.
    Shouldn't the inlaws try to do their best to earn the respect of their DIL so that they are loved and looked after in their old age because of what they have done and not despite what they have done
     

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