No skin off my nose!

Tamildownunder · Sep 17, 2007

cheeniya said: ↑

Dear TDU
I do appreciate your views on this. There is a difference between holding on to principles vis a vis one's personal life like in the case of your grandfather. But in today's Corporate set up where we are just a cog in the wheel, it is more difficult to hold on to one's principles if they run counter to the policy of the employer. Please read my reply to Vysan. I wonder if it is wise to resign one's job if he is in an excellent position in a multinational if he is asked to hand over a 'cover' to a Government employee for favours received by the Company!
I want you to know that I am not advocating an 'unprincipled' life!
Sri
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Dear Cheeniya,

I do agree with you that one should not stand on rigid principles, be it personal life or official life. It may be because I have worked all along in Governement agencies, BARC is a Central Govt. organisation, NPL in U.K is the Govt. alboratory, so also ARPANSA in melbourne and now NIST in Washington where you have a protection that you can keep your principles and get away with it unlike the private concerns. We used to say by being principled in Govt. offices you may not get promotion, but you are sure to get pension. But, still I have been prudent and applied 'Deepasthambam Mahaacharyam' ( please see my thread on this here in IL). Leading a planned life is one of my principles and it is an agony for me to see young people not planning anything, leading a life of 'kandathe kaatchi kondathe kolam'. Bindas, cool are the words most popular with them. What i want to convey is there is nothing wrong in being principled. But, one has to be prudent in compromising the principles so that others are not put to difficulties or put oneself in agonising situations.

Regards,

TDU

rajmiarun · Sep 17, 2007

Principles - The word made me do a lots and lots of thinking. Though I read the post today early morning I kept rambling about it in my mind. Whether I have a principle, am I living according to it. Is there any principle followed by the elders handed over to us. What is Principle really mean to me?

A way of life, an idea, a thought what is it. I was and am still able to point out to one single thing. When it comes to certain things, I be so principled and when it comes to others I tend to bend the rules.

Still I cant guess what principle means to me. My father was a senior official in the IRS and all his life he had been so honest like Veda's father. He cannot digest certain aspects and he took VRS. Now he had taken a job in another MNC but he has taken up a postion where he need not move away from his policies.

Again the same confusion.....

But when it comes to following year old principles, following the religious aspects etc etc..., to be honest I am a bit afraid to move away from the principles.

Confusion still prevails as to what principles really means.

Shanvy · Sep 17, 2007

Sri,

Was thinking and thinking and racking the grey matter...principles....those things that internally motivate you....being honest, being kind...being truthful...all these are principles.

When i think of mahatma gandhi...if he had relaxed a little on his principles ...maybe he would have been a very good father also...

I feel principles should not be too hard or rigid enough to hurt our loved ones...

Today in the corporate/life as such it is the race towards survival...and again here it is the survival of the fittest...we tend to be crushed/stamped out if we stick too much to our principles..

I have a friend..who teaches her son to be selfish...i was stunned....she tells me...today if i don't teach him to be selfish...he cannot survive tomorrow...whether she is correct or not.... i still have a confusion.....

Cheeniya · Sep 17, 2007

Dear Rajmi
A principle is a code of conduct one lays down for oneself for carrying on with his life. Besides this, there are may be other codes laid down by one's religion, by the country of which he is a citizen, by the country where he has chosen to live, by his community and last but not the least by his society. Of these, the first arises out of the dictates of his conscience.
We must understand that none of these is absolute and all-pervading. Personally you may hold on to some principle as sacred while others may laugh at it. There are modern kids who would think that Raja Harichandra was silly while the same story changed the life of Gandhi. We find today parents themselves teaching their children to lie if they want to avoid a phonecall or a visitor who they dont want to meet. What kind of reaction will the story of Harichandra have on these children?
A principle is to be used as a guide for conducting our life smoothly. Too rigid an adherence to it might result in getting ridiculed!
Sri

Cheeniya · Sep 17, 2007

Dear Shanthi
You have summed up the issue to a nicety. What your friend has taught her son is very practical. In this rat race called life, the first and the foremost is winning. Then again to be selfish is alright if it is practised within limits. There is a danger of such a person becoming ruthless and a menace to the society.
Getting ahead of others through fair means is acceptable but getting ahead by any means is deplorable.
Most of us refer to only grandparents and great grandparents when we talk of being highly principled because it was possible for them to be so in their living conditions. The youth of today face a lot more hurdles and emulating a grandfather would be impossible in such conditions as they go through today!
Your example of how Gandhi steered the life of his son to total disaster is a very apt one!
Sri

rajmiarun · Sep 17, 2007

cheeniya said: ↑

Dear Rajmi
A principle is a code of conduct one lays down for oneself for carrying on with his life. Besides this, there are may be other codes laid down by one's religion, by the country of which he is a citizen, by the country where he has chosen to live, by his community and last but not the least by his society. Of these, the first arises out of the dictates of his conscience.
We must understand that none of these is absolute and all-pervading. Personally you may hold on to some principle as sacred while others may laugh at it. There are modern kids who would think that Raja Harichandra was silly while the same story changed the life of Gandhi. We find today parents themselves teaching their children to lie if they want to avoid a phonecall or a visitor who they dont want to meet. What kind of reaction will the story of Harichandra have on these children?
A principle is to be used as a guide for conducting our life smoothly. Too rigid an adherence to it might result in getting ridiculed!
Sri
Click to expand...

Dear Sri sir,

I am not confused of my own principles but I am confused as to whether today's world is running on principles or whether it is better to teach todays kids the value of principles.

Let me tell you one small incident that happened in one of my organisation classes I take for the class 9 children. I was telling them how it will help them in a long run if they learn now to be organised. How they could organize themselves and the things around them. One boy suddenly stood up and raised a question, you say that we all need to be organised and we all should follow it up so that we could lead a better life, ok I agree but what if I alone follow it and no one else in my family is following it or not ready to follow it.

When I asked him to explain what he really meant by that, he said after attending the workshops, I asked my mom to help me getting organised; I told her please give me my milk at 6.30, my breakfast at 8.30 and pls pack my lunch so that I could take it with me to school instead of you bringing it to school or me coming home to have it. She is not able to do it, for one simple reason, she is unable to get up early as she wants to see all the serials late in the night. So I had to come without lunch, if she is not given it in the office I need to go home. I am loosing my time by travelling and I am being denied of using the library in the lunch time as I had to go home.

So what is the use in me getting organized when others around me cannot follow it. I had to explain him that you cannot change adults so easily and so readily, but you could follow these so that you will be a role model for many when you grow up. Dont loose faith.

Simple things like this itself cannot be taught to kids, in that case how can we expect the kids to grow up with the principles of the country, religion, community or the soceity? Self Discipline, self respect are basic principles which need to be followed by all and when it is not followed at home how can we expect them to take up in general.

Principles need to be started from home. Yes kids question about why Raja Harischandra need to follow such a principle? He could have been better off, if he had said to viswamitra that he never promised him so? What did he gain he lost everything, if this is going to happen why should I always be telling the truth?

We all are laughed at by others and we too laugh at others for some principles they follow or we follow. It is at home and it is the parents who should be taught the values and not the kids.

Vysan · Sep 17, 2007

cheeniya said: ↑

Dear Veda
You have raised some very pertinent questions.
Let me ask you a question. If your company is bidding for a huge order, but the award of the contract will involve some kick-back. This particular order will be highly profitable to your company. Your boss wants you to handle the kick back transaction. If you refuse to handle it on account of your avowed principles, the Company might lose the order. What would be your stand?

We all have, or at least most of us have certain core principles. It would be very tough for us to compromise on them but at the same time our refusal to compromise on them might hurt someone else very badly. In my opinion, it would be like telling a lie to save a life!

Adhering to the principles has two dimensions. If we are working for someone, doing what is expected of us is Dharma. Like Karna's 'Senchotrukkadan'. We must do our duty unless we have strong grounds to believe that what we are asked to do will be highly detrimental to our employer's interest. But refusing to do our duty on the grounds of personal ethics is uncalled for as the Lord Himself tells Arjuna.

This is a long debate Veda. Having said all this, I still maintain that a bit of compromise now and then will impart a lot of joy to all concerned.
Sri
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Dear Sri,

I agree with you on the KB transactions.... I am not saying that....In todays world everything depends on the cover....

I also understand the Udhyoga Dharma.... Now the question is whose interest is to be protected, My Boss or the Company.... Here I want to point out that My Boss, (fortunately.....) is not against the Co... and had not made money out of it.... In this case the facts are wrongly intepreted by the boss and the decisions go wrong..... I know that, should I have to tell him that he is wrong or should keep quiet.... If I say he is wrong.... His capacity will be questioned... If I dont tell the company will suffer.... In such a case, when I am the executioner and CEO asks my opinion.... What should I do.....

I can understand..... poimayum vaymai enappadum.....

I agree with you that a little bit of compromise now and then will impart joy to all concerned... at what cost or upto what level....

Sorry, if I am adamently pushing this further.... Bucause, my previous experiences has left me a Big scar.... I want to understand so that, I can learn from experiences...

Veda

Cheeniya · Sep 18, 2007

Dear Rajmi
It is true that the children of today are better organised than the parents. They learn more things from their peers than their parents. In many middle class families in Chennai, mothers spend more time watching TV than imparting values to their children. Fathers are becoming so career oriented that they have very little time to spend with their children. The questions that the boy has raised are very relevant and sadly true.
It is time to introspect if we are giving enough quality time to our children. What is the role that we play in moulding their character? Are we imparting values to them? Does a serial in TV become more important to us than being with our children? Do we get irritated when our children ask us something when our favourite serial is on?
We must remember that the only chance that we have to shape the lives of our children is when they are very young. When they come of age, they may not come to us seeking advice.
Sri

Cheeniya · Sep 18, 2007

Dear Veda
There is no question of where our loyalty should lie. The immediate boss is just another cog in the wheel. If you think that what he does is not in the interest of the company, you are duty bound to point it out to him. It is a very tricky situation particularly if he enjoys the total confidence of the top management. How does one go about if he does not agree with the course of action proposed by his boss? Much will depend on the nature of his relationship with his boss.
In my opinion, your larger interests should come into more focus than getting burdened with educating our boss!
Sri

knbg · Jan 2, 2012

Respected Sir,
Best regards.

I am now on my second day of virtual classes.....one of my goals for the New year....

I shall read each and every gem of yours which you call 'ramblings' and try to learn life's lessons from them.......

You have given the essence of your keen observation and wisdom and all I have to do is study one by one....slowly and steadily.....and study again....to absorb the essence .....

My point is why should anyone be principled at all? Draw a circle around a couple of ants with an anti-termite chalk like Lakshman Rekha and see how miserable they become not knowing which side to go. Our principles have a similar effect on us. The problem is confounded if you have practiced your principles for a fairly long time. Everything becomes a ‘prestige issue’ for you and you find giving in too difficult. I always believe that much of the happiness comes out of our ability to compromise. In Tamil, there is a classic word for too much adherence to principles. It is called ‘varattu gowravam’. I have seen many families ruined by such uncompromising attitude on the part of the heads of families.

Each word is worth a fortune Sir.....Glad to read this lovely post at the beginning of the NewYear.

Wishing you a very Happy New year Sir!