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Matter, Mind & Motivation

Discussion in 'Snippets of Life (Non-Fiction)' started by Viswamitra, Aug 15, 2015.

  1. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Brahma, Vishnu & Shiva had a conference about creating the human beings with special powers of discrimination but were not sure where to place the spirit of the human beings. They discussed about keeping it in the space and seeing through their future vision figured out that one day humanity would reach the space and investigate everything in the space including other planets. Then, they considered placing it deep below the ocean floor and again they found out through their future vision that the humanity also would reach the ocean floor to investigate marine life. They wanted to keep the spirit in a place where the humanity has to use their discrimination to investigate about their spirit. Finally, they decided that the best place to keep the spirit is inside of the human beings so that they would not easily guess where to look for it without using discrimination. This is a story I have heard several years back.

    Humanity that is blessed with special powers of discrimination instead of ameliorating their knowledge through contemplation of their own qualities, utilize it to promote whatever their mind directs them to, adorn themselves through words of self-praise to receive apocryphal accolades and to criticize other beings through evaluation of their credentials. Mind is an adroit an astute substance that is perfectly capable of dominating the life. Sometimes, it acquiesces and retreats only to pounce back later with more vigor. One thing it lacks is discipline and that is needed for the humanity to control the mind and alleviate the risks and pains it could cause through its vagaries. But at the outset, if disciplined, the mind is perfectly capable of making the humanity realize its full potential and achieve great heights and fulfill its purpose.

    Matter is everything that humanity is gifted to perform actions and the mind and intellect are basically emotional and discriminative faculties gifted to express feelings and visualize the effect of their actions. It is left to the humanity to either seek only worldly pleasure, assume unreal Maya as real and delve into dualism or aspire the highest goal of achieving bliss, find the truth and integrate with the formless spirit. It is human tendency to seek low hanging fruits and thrive in amorphous lifestyle. The humanity proudly talks about freedom, liberty and independence without understanding the deep meaning of such words.

    The life is fretted away in pursuit of something insignificant only to condemn ourselves into a life sentence i.e. to come back again and again in a vicious cycle of birth and death. The humanity cries as though there is no tomorrow and makes vow while attending the funeral of the dearest only to retrieve back to their routine life to pursue things that are transient. The humanity takes the love of the dearest ones for granted and aspires for pride, possession and property. They fail to recognize that love transcends life and is immortal.

    What can one do to avoid the conflict of interest between the spirit and the mind? How could one understand the true qualities of the spirit and explore them? More than that, how could one realize the spirit residing inside of him? One has to plant a seed of seeking the truth as a strong motivation deep inside the mind. Every time, the mind shows its vagaries by dispensing with that motivation, one should be adamant and insist of pursuing the truth. The determination to seek truth has to become inherent in every action one does. It should be repeated as a Mantra until the subconscious mind accepts it and decides to pursue that aggressively. The very purpose of life is to pursue the truth and maintaining the mind and matter in good health should be only for the purpose of pursuing the truth. There is nothing wrong in humanity scratching the surface of the world to make a living but it should be to sustain the life that is in pursuit of the truth. One should get detached to pride, possession and property and hold them in trust on behalf of the spirit. The mind has to constantly inquire into the bad qualities and keep refining one’s character forever until it reaches the purest form. In simple terms, the mind should resemble the spirit in order to be one with the spirit. Every step one takes towards the Holy Spirit, the inner motivator takes ten steps towards us. The Sthithaprajna stage is achieved only when Matter, Mind and Motivation to seek truth are aligned.
     
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  2. jayasala42

    jayasala42 IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Viswa,
    You have taken a very serious topic for discussion and dealt with it in your own inimitable fashion.A wonderful presentation! How can it be otherwise,since it has emanated from the great Viswa?

    I think you are referring only to the spirit as inner motivator.
    Apart from thoughts there is no independent identity called 'mind'.If mind and spirit has to harmonise, does it not amount to saying that thought and spirit represent one and the same thing,which is not so in reality?
    In deep analysis of your statement
    Mind should resemble the Spirit.
    Mind is nothing but a cluster of thoughts.
    So logically thought and spirit will be one and the same .
    Sounds quite logical but totally incorrect.

    In deep sleep there are no thoughts;only in the states of waking and dream there are thoughts and there is a world..just as the spider emits the thread ( of the web)out of itself and again withdraws it into itself,in the same way the mind projects the world out of itself and again resolves into itself.When the mind comes out of the SELF,the world appears.Therefore when the world appears (to be real)the Self does not appear.When the SELF shines,the world vanishes.

    In other words our purpose of life is to be in the'deep sleep' state ,quite contrary to Vivekananda's Arise! Awake!
    This is possible only when the enquiry is persistent.
    Though many methods have been suggested to realise this,other than enquiry, no other methods seems to be adequate.
    Even meditation and breath control methods seem to yield temporary results.
    You have stated
    "One should get detached to pride, possession and property and hold them in trust on behalf of the spirit."
    This I don't catch.If we hold the pride,possession and property in trust on behalf of the spirit',does it mean that the Spirit owns all these possessions-which is far from true?When it is emphasized that all the world, possessions are Maya,how can it belong to the Spirit?I hope Viswa will clarify.

    Perhaps I feel that I should not try to understand things that are totally incomprehensible to a commoner like me. Better think practically and do whatever within your capacity without harming others. We can have better realisation without learning the hi-fi definitions mind, Spirit. motivator and the like.Am I wrong?

    Jayasala 42
     
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  3. Balajee

    Balajee IL Hall of Fame

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    Viswa you know very well that I don't agree with your view point. I don't believe in the body spirit division and the life after death. We just cease to exist when we die and don't come back and mind is real but the spirit unless you view it as an aspect of mind, does not exist. as far as I am concerned.
     
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  4. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Smt. Jayasala:

    Thank you for your wonderful response to this post. I am humbled by the first paragraph of your response. As I mentioned several times, I am still a beginner trying to research the subject of spirituality than someone who has in depth knowledge. My conclusions could be completely wrong but that is my way of learning through mistakes. These type of discussions help me refine my thoughts further so that I can understand the right way.

    Yes. I was referring to the spirit as the inner motivator. I agree in the absence of thoughts, there is no mind. No one knows where thoughts are coming from as they just appear in the mind and some times, we get strange thoughts about which we are not able to reason out. It is believed that thoughts are coming from our Vasanas and it is impossible to track them down as the humanity is wired not to remember the Vasanas and that is why we call life as forgetful stage. Awareness stage is when we dwell in the spirit without being separate from the spirit. The ancient teachings are suggesting that the mind had to be annihilated to be one with the spirit. But the mind was gifted to us to perform actions and until such time the life force continue to exist, the mind will be present and hence the only way the mind can cease to exist is by becoming thoughtless. But when life force exist, the mind also exist and therefore, the mind has to be engaged in seeking the spirit. The only way the mind can seek spirit is to make the mind become like spirit initially. If seeking spirit is a thought, how can the mind disappear? At some stage, we will experience that we are the spirit and feel we are not the body or mind and that is when the mind can disappear.

    In my opinion, the mind is always present in all three states including Shusupti. There is subtle difference between absence of thoughts Vs thoughtlessness. The mind truly disappears only when we get to a fourth state called Turya State and when it happens, Jiva gets above the mind to dwell in the spirit and Jiva becomes thoughtless. I believe the purpose of life is to get to the Turya state than Shusupti even though Shusupti is the closest to the Turya State.

    In my view, life is like Yagna. We have to burn all our bad qualities into the fire of the spirit. If one needs to become detached, desireless and achieve equanimity, he needs to surrender the pride, possession and property to the spirit. If seeing the world is Maya, one needs to surrender that to the spirit to overcome the grip of Maya. Truth can be found out only by renouncing Maya. If we develop an attitude that everything belongs to the Lord of the Universe, even Maya belongs to Him. In that context, I mentioned that one needs to surrender the pride, possession and property to the spirit.

    The steps that one should take to reach realization is to improve concentration, contemplation and meditation. In all three Yogas, these steps are essential. esoteric definitions are irrelevant but one needs to pass through these stages to achieve realization whatever Yoga they decide to pursue.

    Viswa
     
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  5. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Balajee,

    I know your beliefs and it is perfectly fine to disagree with each other and be friends. I respect your views. All of us view the prism of life from different angles and describe life based on the angle we see. But it is one and the same that is viewed differently based on the perception. You are saying the spirit is just an aspect of the mind and I am saying that the mind is just an aspect of the spirit.

    Viswa
     
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  6. PushpavalliSrinivasan

    PushpavalliSrinivasan IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Viswa,

    What can one do to avoid the conflict of interest between the spirit and the mind? How could one understand the true qualities of the spirit and explore them? More than that, how could one realize the spirit residing inside of him?


    A very difficult question to answer for ordinary people who are taking baby steps in spiritualism.


    The charma sloka in Bhagavad Gita which I believe is the essence of the whole of Gita and the easily followable one for ignorant people like me.


    My knowledge is very limited. In fact quite insignificant. Being at the fag end of life it is difficult for me to adopt other upayas. After finishing all the duties those who try to gain knowledge in spiritualism have very little time to understand karma yoga, njanayoga and then follow the same. Hence I feel saranagathi is the easiest sadhana to follow.


    The Lord Himself gives this advice in the last chapter to people like us.


    "Sarvadharman Parityajya Mam Ekam Saranam Vraja |
    Aham tva Sarva Papebhyo Mokshayishyami Masuchaha ||

    He says," Relinquishing all dharmas and rituals fruits surrender at my feet wholeheartedly. Even at the last stage if you lose your conscious and could not chant my name I will not forsake you. Once you surrender thyself I will relieve you from all sins and give moksha to you."

    Even Varaha purana charma sloka and Rama Charma sloka to Vibishana also says the same.

    PS
     
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  7. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Smt. Srinivasan:

    In nine forms of devotions, Athamnivedhanam is considered superior to all forms of devotion. Even though, many have suggested total surrender as the best way one can achieve blissful state, it is my humble view total surrender means one should seek Bliss as though someone who is drowning in the water coming above the water to catch breath. I am not sure my mind is capable of having that total devotion that is focused on only one thought with exclusion of all other thoughts.

    We have discussed Markada Kishora and Marjala Kishora in another thread earlier. In the practical world, it looks like we have to seek some Jnana, perform some good karma and have devotion as well even though each one of them are not at its best. At least that habit would get the intensity grow over many lives so that eventually one would get devoted on at least one of them. As we all know all Yogas lead to only one result. Concentration, contemplation and meditation are the three steps one should cross before getting to the stage of Samadhi. Meditative state can be reached in Jnana, Karma and Bhakthi Yoga.

    You are much more knowledgeable than I am and all my posts are just a projection of a few of my thoughts to learn something from the responses I get. I have not even learned the art of concentration, leave alone learning contemplation and meditation.

    Viswa
     
  8. gitasharma

    gitasharma Gold IL'ite

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    Dear Viswa sir / Jaya and Pushpaalli mam

    When I read such writings my mind wanders and many thoughts come to pass and I tend to have an internal conversation.and then give up.
    sometimes I look at the working of the mind in purely physiological terms as a cosequence of a stimulus /multiple parallel stimuli or a cascade of them and then look at controls and responses therof.end up realizing that my controls are not global and therfore the response again is not wholesome and get more and more complicated in solving these crosslinks /give up and switch gears to the metaphysical which with my linmited knowledge does not take me too far then I settle down to say work is my worship and if I do my duty unto my neighbours and make a difference ,i have lived well .also there is this little story I keep telling myself as wellas to my students is as follows "narada once asked bhaghwan as to who is favorite devotee was .to which bhagawan shows a poor farmer who is tilling the soil .Narada is terribly disappointed and asks bhagwan how come for I take your name in every breath and this guy only once when he awakes and once when he goes to bed. At this bhagawan smiles and says well so it is !!.HE then asks Narada if he would oblige him in carrying out a small wish Narada readily agrees. So Maha vishnu says take this oil lamp that is lit make 3 pradakshinams of earth and come back but mind you during this time neither should the light go off nor should you spill a drop of oil. There narad goes on this job and returns gleefully and says there my lord I have done what you had asked me to do.Maha vishnu smiles and says very god how many times did you say Narayana during thiis time to which Narada replies all my concentration was on seeing that the oil does not spill and the lamp does not go off,then Narayana says to that farmer I have assigned the job of tilling the land and sowing the seeds yet he did take time out to think of me 2 times in his day .By then ofcourse Narada gets his answer "
    so when I give up I take solace and say GOD willed me to be a scientist and if I have done my job to the best of my ability and capabilty , mere janam dhanya ho gaya.
    regards
    gita
     
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  9. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Smt. Gita Sharma:

    Mind is a cauldron of thoughts and sometimes can assume the role of an important person and other times it is perfectly capable of sulking on trivial things. When the mind is obedient to the senses, it is perfectly capable of reaching out to the objects one sees and desire for them instantly. Emotional Mind that is called (Manas) and Intellectual Mind that is called (Buddhi) and Repositiory of memories that is called Chitta have different functions. When it identifies itself with the physical body, assuming the doership for various activities, it goes by the name of Ahamkara - ego.

    Manomoolam Idam Jagat says scriptures. It means, "We see the world through the mind" and that is how the world each person sees is different. The physical (sthoola), subtle (Sukshuma) and causal bodies (Kaarana) belong to the state of foregetfulness. The fourth one is Mahaaakaraana (the over-Mind) which is self-luminous and effulgent in its original form which is also called Uniki (Self-knowing) or Eruka (Awareness).

    The mind is an adroit substance and our entire life is about how to control our five senses and the mind. A disciplined mind can do wonders and is perfectly capable of accomplishing everything that Self-luminous and aware spirit wants. When we carefully analyze the three yogas such as Jnana, Bhakthi and Karma, all of them talk about how to improve our concentration, contemplation and meditation in an orderly fashion. Without going through these three steps, one can't achieve awareness.

    Thank you for sharing the story of Narada and the farmer and this story is very famous only to teach the importance of awareness at all time. Any action that is done skillfully, selflessly and lovingly without expecting the fruits of the action is considered meditation in Karma Yoga. Karma Yoga is always recommended for Grahasthas as the best tool. It is important one doesn't resist the Vasanas. If you are destined to be a scientist, the best thing is to perform actions as a scientist to the best of your ability, with keen commitment and dedication to work with no feeling of not wanting to do any part of your role and do it for the benefit of all with no self-pride and with an attitude of dedicating those actions to the Lord.

    It is my humble view that your last paragraph indicates you do just that and it really means meditation in Karma Yoga. I am sure your introspection everyday is helping you to do corrective actions whenever you drift away from meditative Karma Yoga.

    Thanks for sharing the wonderful story about Narada and how you focus on Karma Yoga.

    Viswa
     

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