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Marriage is a School of Love and Forgiveness!!!

Discussion in 'Married Life' started by Tugga, Jan 31, 2010.

  1. Tugga

    Tugga Silver IL'ite

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    Dear Sri Vidya,

    Thanks for posting here:)

    My intention was not to compare these relationships, but to explain the power of love and foriveness.

    In Bible there is a sentence... "Which of you fathers if your son asks for a fish will give him a snake instead?" God's love is revealed to us in this way. Here God Jesus himself compares the God's love with a father's love to explain about LOVE. So, I feel my example is not that wrong;)
     
  2. SriVidya75

    SriVidya75 Platinum IL'ite

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    Sweetheart

    I guess you still got to understand that Parents gave us birth, they never beat you or cane you out of mere anger or to get what they want!! Do they??

    Also how many parents do you see who beat up their grown up kids??? We were disciplined when we were kids but as we grow up our parents tell us firmly, show angry face or upset face and that was enough for us to understand..because we are grownups..we are adults..

    Now coming to marriage, both wife n husband are adults in this so called institution or school what so ever we call it..Both bring equal effort to the table. Both bring equal capabilities to the table. So if a man is capable or strong enough to beat his wife down...and the women in the name of love and forgiveness lets it go.??? does it make any sense!!

    If it was once or twice and there is true remorse from the man, am sure every woman would want to let it go...wouldwnat to forgive!! No woman just steps out of the house or calls cops or starts whining/complaining in the first incident itself...And beleive me this is what makes situations worse! This is taken as acceptance. Man beleives wife kept her calm because she knows she is wrong and the man is right for giving her the punishment for what so ever it is...so the man keeps doing what ever he is doing until one day things really go out of the hand.

    LOVE doesnt hurt...and beleive me..As soon as someone raises their hand to beat you they know that it would hurt you..and no person who loves you does that to you!!

    Can a mom/dad see bruises on your face/shoulder or body???NO. Can a man see them??? YES (abusive non remorse ful one...who thinks you got what you deserve)

    Worst thing is Man makes you beleive that you were the one who made him do what he is doing (This is the major major reason every woman tells you ..who is being beaten up! emotionally these women start thinking they are the bad ones and that is the reason for their husbands behaviour!)

    Nothing / or no incident or no person has a right to hit someone no matter how bad/worse the other persons mistake is..

    Did you ever see cops in US/ other countries (except India) beating up or man handling the most hidious criminals??NOOO a big NOO...but our Indian cops manhandle, give diff. kinds of treatments to make the criminals talk.,So do you understand where our abusive behaviour lies in..?? We basically grew up thinking we are being beaten up because we did wrong...

    So never relate parents disciplining with spouses abusive behaviour..You are not a kid to be disciplined or being beaten up to show your place.


    Coming to School of Love & Forgiveness..it is a big BS as long as both parties are not willing to cooperate. Nothing happens with one person trying, i.e loving/forgiving and keep expecting the other person would understand... whatever cases you have heard/seen where people changed, those people might have been committed to each other, committed to marriage than to their own selfish motives (either their own habits/parents/what ever the reason is...)

    Everything in this world has a limit. After a certain point STOP expecting the other person will change, how many such women do we see on our IL itself where the kids are 10+yrs old husband doesnt change, and women are in the marraige ofr the sake of kids?? now do such kids grow up with a good mental balance??? now do such women who makes their lives around kids become good MILs to their future DILs??? This is all a big cycle...

    This doesnt mean a women has to walk out immeidately...it means you have to start taking steps towards fixing things if not take some serious measures!!! now what is serious for me may not be serious for you!!

    But lets not lie to ourselves in the name of Love & Forgiveness.

    As long as love and forgiveness is understood, and the person shows remorse and signs of mending behaviour...yes spend more time, forgive and forget...but if the person is taking love and forgiveness for granted and the behaviour shows no signs of change, except for becoming worse day by day...time to open eyes and stand up! Yes Initially it would hurt alot...because love was onesided...lot of time was wasted on this person...but again slowly when you come to terms that you did what you can do to fix the marriage and it was meant to be broken, whether you both live togehther under one roof or go diff. ways doesnt matter anymore


    Coming to what Jesus said! I guess you really have to read more to understand that meaning well! But if you insist god said take abuse with love and end up dying...I dont know..I cant beleive it..Sorry I am not a christian so I cant understand the bible words or interpretations of love!

    By the way Is this School of Love & Forgiveness has female students only??? is it gender specific school??? Why cant the husband love and forgive wives mistakes and let her be what she is??? why he has to beat her up, or try to control her in the name of marriage/being a husband/being a man of the house!

    I guess dear women really need to growup...STOP watching those emotional sentimental BS movies aobut love and assume everything is going to be sooo hunky dory in real lives...NO...Sometimes I blame women for the ruthless behaviour of men as Women are breeding bad behaviours of men and its becoming highly difficult for men to understand really what is right or wrong! They know what is right! but when they do something wrong still women love and forgive...the most horrific mistakes!! that is making them confused and making situations worse to an extent where suicides and murders are happening!
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  3. vidhkarthik

    vidhkarthik Bronze IL'ite

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    Awesome Srividhya. I agree to every word of what you said.

    Parents need to help us grow. We are immature, tiny beings when we are with them. Its their responsibility to teach us to live in this world. I joined my husband as an adult. I cannot equate both relationships. Mistakes we do in our teens and mistakes the spouses commit when they are old enough to know right from wrong are just not same.

    Love and forgiveness are all fine and dandy, only if they are well within their limits and used for reasons which are worthy. I cannot love and forgive when the spouse is spineless and makes the partner bear the brunt of the ILs by not standing up for the other, I cannot love and forgive if my spouse repeatedly puts me in financial strain by reckless spending or by not allowing me access to my funds, I cannot love and forgive if he reduces me to a glorified maid and not give me any rights of a spouse and beats me up mercilessly. I agree you have to forget and move one for one's own peace...but forgiving is reserved only for certain non repetitive non-cruel acts.

    Someone took an example of Sita here. Sita herself did not forgive Ram for questioning her integrity, am just a mere mortal. I do not want to be a devi...let me be a mere normal mortal.
     
  4. vimala1957

    vimala1957 Bronze IL'ite

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    Well explained SriVidya. Every point has so much to say. I wish every woman understands these facts and learns to live a respectable life.

    Vidhkartik, I totally agree with your views.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  5. ShilpaMa

    ShilpaMa IL Hall of Fame

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    Love & forgiveness -was implicitly applied.... thats why you completed X number of married years of life.

    Aggressiveness - was also there hence u had the basic right of respectful living & surfing net & living in that house full of ppl hating you & degrade you morally /socially/ financially.

    When a snake stops hissing.. ppl take a ride over him too... hence one needs to select whats right action for that moment & person... there's no std pill for same treatment to different ppl... if your situation is not changing with approach A then take approach B.. thats it.
     
  6. Tugga

    Tugga Silver IL'ite

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    Dear Srividya,

    You got me wrong here... I 100% agree with your entire post, but it doesn't give any response to my OP.

    I have clearly mentioned in my OP that "it is upto the person to decide whether to forgive your spouse or to take blunt actions to solve your issue. It is based on how you rate your overall marriage life. If you think your marriage is perfect except a few weaknesses of your spouce, then you can try for forgiveness, as no bitter treatments would bring back the love in your marriage. At the same time, if you think your marriage is running out of love, and there is no love left in your life, then ofcourse you can go ahead with whatever the treatments. Because, here your safety is much more important in a loveless marriage - This was the summery of my OP.

    Here goes my comments on your post:-

    Yes.. Sometimes they do.
    Just because we are blessed with a caring parents doesn't mean all the parents in this world are caring and loving. In my profession, I have seen many kids from both middle class and lower class families are being discriminated, forced to prostitition, beaten up, verbal/physical abuses by their own parents..and it is well justified as circumstances. I mean, there are abusive parents too:(

    Also abuse is not limitted to men only, unfortunately there are some abusive women too:(

    So, I am here NOT to compare the parent Vs Spouse relationships, BUT to make my point clear that LOVE is the best medicine that will cure most of your illness in any relationship, so please try it once before you jump into other actions.

    I agree, we all are adults now.. But it doesn't mean we are perfect or saints. We do have our own mistakes/flaws.
    I have seen many Indian mothers cane their kids out of anger or to discipiline them. It is not because they beat their kids as the kids are powerless, and the parents are loveless. Most of the time, they do it out of their practice and culture. They still love their kids, and their intention is not to hurt them.. It is their weakness, lack of knowledge/awareness that's all.

    But the same parents, after moving out of India, think twice about their way of discipilining their kids... Here they have concerns about COPs, arrest, social humiliation, culture etc... But it doesn't mean parents do not care their kids when they are in India, and now show much love and care after moving to the US. It is just the matter of understanding.

    Your entire post was about physical abuse by men. You got me wrong again.

    See, forgiveness and love don't equate to foolishness.

    As per your post, if someone spend 10+ years in a loveless and abusive marriage, but still continue the same life.... Doesn't mean the person has forgiven/forgotten her spouse. She simply has no choice other than accepting all these abuses... How this life can be an example of forgiveness?????

    Here, her weakness has been taken for granted by her husband, not her forgiveness. Because this lady has no point of forgiving her abusive husband when there is no love left in her life.

    Coming to the bible examples... Dear, I am a born Christian. I know what I meant in the bible quote. I said, according to the bible when God himself compares human's love with his love, then why can't we compare our parent's love and forgiveness with our love to our spouses?????

    But my point was not to compare these relationship, but to give you more insight of what is in the OP.

    I repeat... Foolishness and forgiveness are two different terms. Love and dependancy (feeling like useless) are also entirely different from each other.

    Forgiveness must come out of love and for love, not because of foolishness or dependancy (I mean out of no other options).

    Hope I made my point clear now:)

    Thanks for understanding
     
  7. Tugga

    Tugga Silver IL'ite

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    Dear Vidkarthik,

    Thanks for posting...

    But, mistakes are mistakes. There is no rule that only children and teens commit mistakes and not adults. We do have our own weakness, and so we commit mistakes.

    If you cannot love your spouse, then you cannot forgive him too. Period.

    According to my opinion, sincere love doesn't put conditions like if you do this, then I will not love you...Nevertheless, everything has a limit. You can't keep on loving someone when you are repeatedly hurt and your spouce puts you in a huge trouble. It is all upto the person to decide whether his/her spouse still deserve his/her love or not.. then forgiveness follows.

    I repeat, forgiveness should come out of love, and not out of foolishness!
     
  8. Tridev

    Tridev Silver IL'ite

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    What you are saying is little contradicting, the other day I posted a research on Coroporal punishment, parents who think hitting kids is a way to discipline , sort of raise abusive adults, you said that police in India beats criminals and where did the behavior lie in? it lies in roots, it lies in upbringing, when kids see that beating is justified in anger to discipline someone, that gets carried over . in India its norm parents beat to teach discipline, kids stop from doing what angers parents, but they stop due to fear that they will be beaten, and not because they think its not right... the fear of beating stops them, that kinds of manifests in adults who see beating as a way to take anger out and a way to stop a person from doing what he or she is doing.

    There is a very close link in parents who raise kids by beating and adults who are abusive to their kids or spouses too.

    Corporal Punishment in Children - What Does It Accomplish?

     
  9. Tugga

    Tugga Silver IL'ite

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    Hope you guys know what is going on in the quantum prisons, and how the prisoners are treated inhumanly by the American authorities.

    Moreover, we may live in all parts of the world, but our roots are from India. We mustn't forget that.

    My OP was all about how parents forgave us throughout our teens/early adulthood mistakes, so why can't we have a heart to forgive our spouses' mistakes and give them some times to realise their faults.

    Kindly note:
    I have humbly requested all the responders to be very careful when they give advises related to marriage life. Because we can't expect the asker to analyse every answers and apply it as per his/her circumstances. No one will be in a stable mood when they post their frustrations here, so your answers (whether it is right or wrong) will definitely influence their life.

    For instance, yesterday I happened to read the TTC forum, where someone has posted some herbal tips like consuming neem leaf and tumaric would help the women to conceive soon. Immediately many ladies responded, and asked so many questions on how and when to consume, what qantity and where can we get it in the US. I am sure some of them have alreay started consuming it. All these women were so tired of continous failures in their TTC period, so no wonder how they terribly needed such innovative ideas.

    Later on that day, someone has googled it and came to know that neem leaves and tumaric are anti fertle medicines, hence that would reduce your fertile power. See.... how far these on line forums and irresponsible responses affect someone's life. Better be careful than sorry later.
     
  10. feduptocore

    feduptocore Senior IL'ite

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    SRIVIDYA YOU HAVE SAID IT ALL

    Dear Tugga
    I agree that you need to love to forgive... but believe me you can continue to love the person but NOT forgive and forget his unjustified hurtful actions or words.....I basically think if you love you tend to forget, to over look the matter, not bear a grudge but forgive????

    Also abuse stands by itself.. verbal or physical... whether by parent or spouse.. and there is no justification for it... the minute I've tread on someone else's freedom and crossed my limit and hurt them... I've commited an offense... i know is great to forgive but how many can truly really do that... yes but quite a few of us can accept small trivial day to day incidents, judge for ourselves and move on in life without bearing grudges and these incidents slip back somewhere in time and we continue to love but do we really forgive and forget???

    Also another point that you made of answering posts... all of us who mail here know that nobody is an expert counsellor infact in many posts ladies ask the OP to contact one incase they realise that its not their cuppa tea...
    the general idea is to pour out what is troubling you discuss it with people hear their suggestions (as some are really practical) feel relieved and move on... I think many have gained here and ofcourse there are positives and negatives in all cases....but I'm sure all the OP have enough common sense to see that...
    K
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010

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