Is there anything wrong in this set-up???

Tara - I revise my opinion of your post. Thank you for clarifying. In many other posts, you had said that you have not-so-bad in-laws. In fact, in that thread I was referring to, you said they were not bad in-laws also because you were not an easy target. So, my post because I believed that you had not-so-bad in-laws. I have all along said that abuse negates everything else. Since you say that you are abused, obviously what I wrote above will not apply to you. I am glad you are standing up for yourself. Regarding my brother and SIL, my parents are my biggest worries. They will never leave India so they are going to be on their own. They are now in their 60s and in decent health but as years go by, I don't know how they will be. I do not expect ANYTHING from brother and his wife now. In fact, I don't even consider him as someone they can rely on so for all intents and purposes, I am currently their only child. I blame him more than his wife because she is an outsider but he is their son and if he is not concerned, then why she should be? When they get very old, I am hoping that I can bring them over or maybe we can temporarily relocate to India. Maybe my inlaws will work with me and support me, maybe they won't. But I am not even thinking about them already because I know that worrying so far in advance cannot solve anything.

 

Anuradha, Thanks for your understanding. I have mentioned that I was not an easy target because we stayed away from them. I consider them being not-so-bad due to lack of opportunity!!
Had dh and I been living in India, they surely would have succeeded in their mission. I wanted to give them left and right, blast off verbally but really I do not have that guts as much as I speak. And that is exactly why I started this thread too.

Living abroad made us grow wiser. How about you???

Hope that explains all. You cannot believe how cunning they are. They are not bad if you just meet them few times, and talk to them. Infact, lot of my relatives blamed me because they found my inlaws are good souls. But, taking me to be an opponent in the boxing ring I know how and where it hurts. They do it in a way, you cannot blame them even but you will get the pain where they intended. No clues left!
I have even started a thread trying to discuss giving back to inlaws verbally, talking back, giving left and right but in response I realized that it is not so easy either for me or for some other ladies. You know, you can call that my fantasy, my dream of talking back to inlaws when they abuse you. But, so far if I have been 50% successful it is all because of dh's cooperation only and not my effort.

 

Anuradha, when we were with our parents, we were in no physical relationship with a man who was the center of life for our mother... and in inlaws house we're sleeping with our DH, who was/is MILs most sought after person & thats one relation which definitely brings 2 people closer, we need intimate moments & some privacy and nowadays sex is not only a midnight event in a 10 X 10 feet bedroom.

This particular justification is root cause of trouble when good inlaws are turned into monsters only to justify living separate. I've seen a lot of ladies doing it cos no other way their DH will agree to stay separate.
Also whats the justification of VERY FEW boradminded parents/ inlaws who setup their own single son's house separate a floor above or below or as a neighbour soon after his marriage? Wont they turn into 70s or 80s or wont they need emotional/physical support? Its more ridiculous when inlaws like mine sell off all their properties just before son's wedding to ensure that they have a tight control over son & DIL and leave no option to stay even as neighbour. If you start a relation with apprehension you'll get only apprehension in return from a sane person.

 

There are so many things other than abuse that come in the way of having good relationship with inlaws and my brother and SIL's case is the best example I can give here.
You need not always be abused, exploited to stay away. Living away can become one's preference after what they have experienced over long time of living in one kind of set-up and getting used to it.

If our parents were childless then would they not have lived by themselves at old age?

OK now, let me get to my brother's family story. My SIL was my close friend. My brother fell in love with my friend and married her. They used to live in US till couple of years back. My SIL and myself were a matter of envy to some. We were like friends. SIL is very artistic and has a great sense of dress, grooming and decorating the house. She is an excellent cook. I stand no where near to her. My mom and SIL are same in so many aspects. Mom being great cook, had sense of art and home decor.

Brother decided to move back couple of years back and they planned to live under the same roof as my parents. Believe me, of all the people I was the one who disliked the idea. I advised brother when SIL was not there to take a house/apt nearby but not live in the same. I said SIL is used to living separately and she should not feel it as invading on her privacy and later feel forced to put up with things she may not like. I also told him to consult SIL on this.
Brother like any other Indian man nodded his head but never implemented it. May be he thought there was no problem so far, so why worry? After that I never involved in their affairs.

After living in that setting for 3-4 months, things started going sour with something as silly as what color curtains to buy for living room to how many guests to call for child's birthday to which doctor my parents should visit, which tuition master is good etc etc... Slowly, things started taking an ugly turn. Mom and SIL are equally talented and thus both wanted to do things their way.
I already started worrying because frankly more than anything I did not want to lose my friendship over petty family issues.

One day, SIL called me and started telling me about what mom did and how mom talked. I kept quiet and called up mom. Even without me mentioning anything, mom poured out her share of complaints.
That evening I called up brother and SIL and asked if they need any help from me. When they agreed to take help I said, first get out of the house and go find one for yourself before things become uncontrollable.
My SIL is my best friend so she understood. Brother hesitated. We both drilled into his head how important it is for DIL to live away from MIL.
Finally, they started living separately, away from parents after 8 months of staying together under one roof. Mom and Dad were upset.
I explained mom how without even any bad intention things can go wrong sometimes and how being away is best for all. Now, my SIL thanks me for this. Mom and dad go visit them and brother and family also visit them for any festivals. They live about one hour's distance from each other.

I think I stopped a huge tsunami from coming......:rotfl

So, here in this, you can see that just because both were active and equally talented things started taking downturn. It could have happened even if one was not or both were not....whatever whatever.

You could say both sets were immature. Give it whatever name but the end result is .....living together with parents/inlaws does not work......

Stay away, Stay Happy......................that is my way!!


OP; Other than just seeing it from abuse point of view you could see it this way too. Two equally competent people cannot survive without constantly competing with each other. Now, in fact my SIL finds a 'Martha Stewart in my mom...LOL!! and my mom started praising my SIL's culinary skills.....LOL!! I bet this could never have happened had they continued living the way they did when they first landed in India.
So, distance makes hearts grow fonder..........

 

If parents HAD BEEN childless, then it is a different thing. They would have been prepared for every eventuality instead of blindly believing that their son will be there emotionally and morally for them when they are older, and physically if and when they get really old and in poor health. They would not have spent lacs and lacs on a son's education / wedding / living expenses only to have him not even bother to send them $100 a month for just their medical expenses when they finally went bankrupt. Their business would not have sunk because they would have poured their money into it instead of taking money intended for business and spending it on their son instead. Now, they have lost both son and business.

Your brother and SIL haven't left your parents in a lurch like my brother and his wife have. I have clearly explained my parents situation in many other posts. Your brother and his wife are only living separately - they have not cut them off completely from their lives. You yourself say they have a good relationship and are close now. So, where is the similarity between your parents' situation and mine? What if your brother and his wife did not even care about your parents even when your parents were suffering emotionally, physically and financially after sucking them dry financially and emotionally? Then also you will think - well, if my parents were childless then they would be alone, so why they are expecting support from me and my brother? Is it that other people's sufferings do not matter to you?

Right now your parents seem to be in good health, financially strong, and have a decent relationship with your brother and his wife. I really hope that they continue to be well but I would really wonder if you would have reacted like this is this had not been the case.

Believe me, all I'm asking is for my brother to be a moral support to my parents, even if he lives in a different country. I don't see how that is too much. I expect this because my parents are NOT childless and they have the right to expect from MY brother what YOUR parents are currently getting from YOUR brother - good relationship even if not living together.

 

Perfect example of investment and expectations/ return on investment when in my previous thread ASG and many more felt disghusted. According to me it was their duty to give education and marry him if they overdid.. who is to be blamed?... Ok if your bro was sending just $100 then dint you club in remaining?
I agree that he just left your parents alone and it was sad... But is this scenario anyway related to this thread? Would living tog or separate had resolved this issue? You might feel that if they were living tog then at times of business failure the common expenses could have been met... but tell you what I've seen real bitter sons and DILs who being in the same house treated their parents much worst than sending $100.

 

Madam, if parents have a DUTY to educate kids and get them married, then kids have DUTY to give physical and moral support to parents in the old age. What, this is all one-way street? WHY do you feel ENTITLED to advanced education and wedding? Why parents cannot expect moral support from kids? This attitude that kids shouldn't give any sort of support for aging parents is why I told Sangeetha that it would be better if my parents had never had him. They did too much for him and learned their lesson too late. Until they went bankrupt, they were doing for him even though he was earning six figure salary. In fact, my parents bought land around their city and registered it in their joint names before their business went bust. There was never any financial expectations from him until they went bankrupt, and then also only Rs. 5000 for medical expenses, because my father went to work as accountant and I sent money from my earnings for their housing and food expenses even though they were reluctant to take it. How then we were expecting returns on investment on him? My brother makes more than $100,000 a year and spends 1000s of dollars on vacations every year. NO ONE is expecting financial support for a luxurious life from him, just moral support and some financial support for medical expenses. This also they cannot expect??

This was my response to Sangeetha for asking me what I would have done if my parents were childless. You don't find it callous? AND I am talking about moral support - which can be given even when living separately.

Lady, why are parents NOT a son's responsibility? Why are parents ONLY a daughter's responsibility? Don't parents do anything for sons? Parents are cursed if they don't educate their sons and get them married but sons don't get cursed if they fail to take care of parents in their old age? Why so much double standards? Are parents of sons supposed to just fade away after doing everything for the sons? For your kind information, I am the one who is their full support, so your question in caps doesn't even apply to me. I am there for them 100% - thank God my husband is not like my brother's wife - but they have two children and were emotionally always closer to him. Like people of our previous generation, they also feel son is a bigger support (moral and physical - to some extent financial) than daughter but they are now in a situation where son doesn't even care if they are dead or alive, so we have all absolved him of any responsibility.

Madam, please please please do not compare our situations. Your brother couldn't come because of some issues but that was probably one time thing. I would have understood that too. BUT my brother - listening to that woman - demanded a "share" of my uncle's insurance money right when my parents' business had collapsed and they also lost my uncle out of the blue. THAT is the kind of trauma he has afflicted on them, when he should have been giving him moral support for my dad to come out of his deep depression and when creditors were knocking at their door, they lost their house and were almost on the streets! And you are saying that we are holding him in a spell of expectations?

NOT able to meet what? Sending $100 out of $15000 salary? Having humanitarian consideration and not demanding insurance money from people who are already bankrupt? Calling once every 2 to 3 weeks to see how they are doing? THESE are expectations that are hard to meet?

WE don't want him back. My parents can no longer trust him - even if he comes back, I personally will not be able to trust him or sleep peacefully at night after the agony he inflicted on them. It is better that he stays away from them as now they are reconciled to the idea that he doesn't care for them. If he goes back then again they will become emotional and may get hurt again by him.That I cannot stand. God is watching. I would never wish evil for him but if I were him, I would be very afraid of KARMA coming back to bite him in the butt eventually.

 

Anuradha,

It is indeed sad that your brother shows indifference towards his own parents. But, be happy you are there for them and he is not the only child.

There is nothing for you to feel that I am being callous here. By saying what if parents were childless I only meant to say that parents should have very less expectations from children and that will not happen when
parents become ' money trees' for their kids with return expectations when it goes dry.

Again this money tree thing should be taken as it is and not related to your parents and brother.......my request!
In your case they are expecting as simple as just 100$ per month and your brother should not find it tough since he earns more than 10times that.
My theory of parents considering themselves childless was only to make sure they have a safe and secured retirement without any expectations from children. Nowhere have I said that child should not support even if parent is in pain or misery.

But, your brother is clearly neglecting his parents and has no feeling of compassion toward them, who did everything possible for him and in fact as you say more for him than you.

Parents should prepare themselves for their retirement before pumping all the funds into the child and ending up dry. It is not me but the financial advisers around the world are trying to get into parents heads. I wonder when our Indian parents will realize this?

And for answering your question of what if they were your parents, would ask your brother to stay away from them, my answer is in my brother and SIL story. How I was the one who suggested and also helped them move out and later when parents were upset and sad, I did all the talking on behalf of brother and SIL.

Yes, my brother has not left my parents in lurch as your brother did.
So, don't you agree not everyone is bad?? In the same way, not every DIL who wants to live away from inlaws is bad either. There may be something not convenient she feels about this setting and that shouldn't make her a 'bad DIL'.

If my SIL and mom lived together there would have been trouble and so I am happy they live separately and I have told here how that happened etc
You need to remember that not all who want to live away from inlaws are like your brother and SIL. What I see all the time here is you start linking that to your brother and his indifferent attitude.

 

What is wrong with saving for your own retirement? In our own life, me and dh's retirement is a priority (because we don't want to burden our kids for anything down the line + stay self sufficient). For college, can't our kids take out a loan? And if we are an average middle class family, can't they have a reasonable wedding, reasonable car, reasonable everything... and if they want overly lavish stuff, can't they buy it themselves then? Of course if we have the money, we would love to fund their education and all their major life events.... but if we remain just average middle class family like we are now, why is it wrong of us to scrimp on the pomp when it comes to our kids, if it means a more secure future for us? Me and my dh work hard... why are we not allowed to keep some money for our own survival?

 

ASG, That is exactly what I was trying to say when I tried answering the question "What if they were your parents? Would you ask your brother to live away? I tried to answer it by saying what if parents were childless wouldn't they think of their old age and how they will support themselves. Similarly, parents even with children should first look into their retirement before pumping out funds on children.
Children can survive by taking loans or working extra hours or 2 jobs but parents should consider their living at old age as more important.

That is why the financial gurus scream at the top of their lungs.....Think of your retirement before you pump all that into kids...!!