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is premarital sex right?

Discussion in 'Intimacy' started by anurajiv, Jan 7, 2010.

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  1. shyamalajh

    shyamalajh Gold IL'ite

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    "United States is probably the most religious and least mentally progressive country among the Western developed nations and surprise, surprise"Is it hobby to talk judgementally? doesn't merit response. Just a clarification I never supported religion VS no religion. I don't care what vatsayana said nor do i care what manu said. neither was in my shoes i damn well know what i must do.
    what are you saying with USA example, what is the conclusion?India is a highly religious country like USA. shall we make being irreligious mandatory in religious India or shall we make PMSex mandatory and let India and USA compete on teen pregnancies?
    I appreciate your ideas on morality. But i was not discussing you.We are talking about people in general.Most do believe in morality. I am sure you noticed that most do judge people in EMAs/polygamous relations badly calling them names.
    Well, funny New age or new world, they mean same when you want to say judeo christian or islam just call them that.what are dark ages and which historian called them dark ages?
    Anyway my actual points are
    1.teens can't take responsibility for their actions they need help from mom and dad so shouldn't they have say in this.It is in that context I brought up the negative aspects of PMSex, not to say it should be banned. Funny interpretation.
    Someone said PMSex doesn't hurt others but EMA does. sorry if things go wrong it hurts parents financially emotionally and in many other ways.
    2. My other point is if we are bound to act on what is natural, why people(not about your opinions)find love while in marriage, polygamy etc so immoral? why marry if believe polygamy is natural and better then give it as an excuse to judge them.Why get into a contract of monogamy knowing it is unatural and then blame others for breach of contract? Let's act on all our natural instincts or let's understand everybody draws limits at different levels and stop the natural instinct talk that we obviously don't follow to the full.
    Lets accept polygamy too as it is as natural for people to act on it as PMSex is. What great harm EMAs and polygamy do? They hurt simply because we don't understand that they are very natural behaviour like PMSex. The conservative society too gets hurt because they don't understand PMSex is very natural behaviour. I would like to know how many have courage to question this conventional wisdom on polygamy, EMAs, etc in action. According to Marx, monogamy is result of Institution of private property. For proper inheritance man needs to make sure children are his own, else neighbor's kids will enjoy his hard earned money.
    Let's take the natural instict logic to it's logical end.
     
  2. shyamalajh

    shyamalajh Gold IL'ite

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    I already said sex ed is good why do you keep repeating same thing. Ofcourse there are countries like greece, italy and Ireland which have no sex ed but have lower teenage pregnancies.obviously I am not saying abstinence only sex-ed so why all that writing? Please write only if i dispute no need to repeat things that i didn't question or dispute. Thanks
    Again,I already said that sexual urge is biologically normal from the time of puberty. But you DON'T NEED man/woman to satisfy the biological urge. I
    didn't read anyone claiming to be adults with no sexual urges. where did you get that.Having urge for Icecream everyday is one thing running for it
    everyday and getting fat is another thing. No one said they don't have urges we do, just like we feel like beating someone on busy days. But I never beat anyone, that doesn't make me a person with no aggressive thoughts or urges(According to freud they are as strong as sex).Hope you get the difference between having urge and acting on it in a particular way(sex with another man/woman).As I said earlier "They could very well be biologically content but never met someone they trust to fulfill the psychological/emotional part. "
    About suppression of urges, don't know if you read freud, please read sublimanation.Was christ a sexually repressed individual? mast will any time prefer christ over many sexually liberated ones.Your sexual repression talk is half educated one please read freud fully.
     
  3. adara

    adara Bronze IL'ite

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    I agree to the above. If you cannot take responsibility of the consequences (all contraceptives, condoms are not 100% safe or can prevent pregnancy) then what right have you got to go in for PM sex. This is with regards to people who are not fully independent yet to support themselves.


    Very Correct!
    Are we to act on all our instincts otherwise it is considered unnatural. If that is right then one may feel the urge to have sex with the neighbor but then that is considered EMA and wrong....why? We have acted very naturally....right? Aren't the breach of trust, marriage vows etc etc all made by society, by people and not the true instinct of a human being because after all humans are taken to be polygamous animals.


    Yeah thats right!! It is not that women/men do not have sexual urges before the age of 25 or whatever. I had really strong sexual urges at 21/22 but waited till I got married to act on them. So, am I considered sexually repressed one. I haven't acted naturally as Malavika says because I considered the serious consequences biologically. I feared the contraceptives may/may not work and what if that happens. Am I ready for a baby and I am so against abortion without valid reason.
    So, all that is needed now in India is as Malavika said is sex education in schools and in the US and other western countries women need to be educated like Shymalajh said on the grave consequences on health due to repeated abortions or constant use of contraceptives.
    So, both sides should be educated.




    If following set of rules is being lemmings then aren't we following set of rules made by the same society in the name of marriage??? Then why is EMA not considered the same as PM sex?? After all it is the same sexual urge we had some years back that led to PM sex!:idea


    I have that q? too..
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  4. Malavika81

    Malavika81 Bronze IL'ite

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    So if Sex ed is good, why should it be optional? You said sex education should be optional
    and I wonder why it should be optional in a country like India where AIDS is a rampant epidemic.

    Why do you assume every woman has to be content with sexual self gratification or that every women need psychological or emotional support to have sex? Some of us would like to have a sexual partner other than Rampant Rabbit or Hitachi magic wand from time to time and we are not exactly looking to marry every bloke we fancy shagging. I did not anywhere say if you choose to suppress your sexual urges, it is right or wrong(I did say it is unnatural) and I clearly said it is in individual choice to act on your urges. Pre-marital sex fits in that umbrella.

    Well I don't know anything about Christ and nor do most individuals who believe in him and worship him. There is absolutely no clear evidence to even establish that there was an individual by the name of Jesus Christ who lived 2000 years ago but that is completely off topic for this argument so I shall not go there. Before I veer off too much away from what I meant to ask..... why exactly would most people Christ over many sexually liberated ones and how did you logically arrive at that conclusion? Afterall, Christ is a relevant figure only to 1/6th of the world's population at the most so I am intrigued as to why most people would prefer Christ over many sexually liberated ones (eventhough I have absolutely no idea who these sexually liberated individuals in question are and why they are being compared to Christ in this specific argument)

    Nor did I accuse you anywhere that you want Pre-marital sex banned or people who engage in it be punished. But you brought up Teenage pregnancies and Date rapes as classic Strawman arguments to vilify and demonize pre-marital sex and I really wonder why you would deliberately posit those strawmen there. Afterall, we are talking about pre-marital sex and I am not sure why you felt the need to introduce teen pregnancies and date rapes as arguments against pre-marital sex. They have very little relevance to “Is pre-marital sex right or wrong?' discussion. Not all people who engage in pre-marital sex are not teenagers and a significant percentage of them are grown adults and they do take responsibiltiy for their actions if something goes wrong because of their choices. And once again, you bring up teenage pregnancies in this specific instance as well to vilify pre-marital sex and trying to establish a direct correlation between teen pregnancies and pre-marital sex which is not there. Teen pregnancies happen due to lack of knowledge of sex education and proper use of contraception. And that has very little bearing on pre-marital sex which most adults engage in and not necessarily see marriage as a prerequisite to have sex. If they get pregnant, then they are adults and they usually end up taking responsibility for their actions. Most single unmarried mums in the west were not all knocked up when they were teenagers. They just happened to be not married or don't want to be married to the bloke who impregnated them.
    I have had my fair share of pre-marital sex and most of the time I was engaged in it, I was not a teenager and if I had been pregnant because of my choices, that would hardly be qualified as teen pregnancy. So did many of my friends and I have friends who are single mums who chose not to be married but they were not teenage mums. And who exactly made it sound like it is mandatory to have premarital sex? There is very little correlation between teen pregnancies and pre-marital sex and they are two different and distinct issues.
    You are really beating around the bush here. Who cares what people call someone with multiple partners in India or who has no sexual partners in the west? I certainly did not call one or the other by any names and the whole objective of this argument is to get away from social stereotypes and social norms and do what is best for your personal situation and the topic in contention is pre-marital sex. And yet again, another one of your strawman, date rape resurfaces here along with teenage sex. Do you have any evidence or proof to establish date rapes are all happening to teenagers? You seem to try hard to establish a spurious nexus between pre-marital sex and teen pregnancy and date rapes to drive home your point of pre-marital sex is bad but unfortunately they are three distinct issues and there is very little correlation between those and you fail to establish any meaningful correlation between those 3 distinct issues to say one leads to the other.

    How exactly did you arrive at that conclusion all on your own? All I said was 'It is unnatural for a woman 25 or 30 yrs of age not to have sex' and that is not judgemental but rather a fact. I did not advocate anywhere how to act on those urges or establish one approach is better than the other and I have clearly stated it is an individual choice that should be left up to discretion. Whereas, you on the other hand proclaimed pre-marital sex is a stupid decision that does not needs to be supported by other women and introduced date rapes and teen pregnancies as a case against pre-marital sex when there is clearly very little nexus between the 3 and pre-marital sex is NOT the sole causation for teen pregnancies or date rapes and nor is pre-marital sex a superset of the other two.
    Well just because I am not practicing polygamy does not necessarily mean I am against it. I am not practicing homosexuality either but I am not against it and I certainly support the rights and equality of homosexuals. If polygamy works for certain people then c'est la vie and you won't see me protesting it or waving placards in a anti-polygamy rally and I see nothing wrong with consenting adults of legal age engaging in polygamy.
    What is judgemental about a fact that US is the most religious and least socially progressive country among OECD nations? It is a fact. United States is the only OECD nation which has death penalty. It is the only OECD country where your religion and church matters a lot when you run for politics. It is also the only OECD nation which has explicit laws against prostitution. Prove me wrong on that statement.
    The reason I cited US as an example was, usually pre-marital sex is frowned upon and looked down upon in general in countries with strong religious beliefs. And most of those tenets against pre-marital sex do not originate from logic or rationality but from religion and religious underpinnings and they usually have a moral component attached to it to hijack people from rationality. And despite all the moral brainwash, these countries usually top out in the statistics when it comes to things they preach against like pre-marital sex. Well India leads in teen pregnancies among all countries in Asia. So I ask myself this question. If pre-marital sex is a taboo in India and everyone is told to suppress their sexual urges till marriage, how come India leads the charts in teen pregnancies? You can explain this conundrum the best to me since you seem to be very convinced about the nexus between pre-marital sex and teenage pregnancies.

    I said new world religions vs judeo christian religions because it was not just Islam and Christianity that posed a threat to Hinduism but also Buddhism and some less extent Jainism. The latter two were offshoots from Hinduism. And hinduism went thru its dark periods or dark ages between 2nd and 9th century (maybe even 10th) when these new religions started attracting people to its philosophies.

    1.We have already established that pre-marital sex does not translate to teenage sex or teen pregnancies. Pre-marital sex can be of and in most cases, between consenting adults and they do not fit the teenage umbrella. And nor are they part of teenage pregnancy statistics. They are two distinct issues with little correlation. Please don't attempt to establish a spurious connection between them to vilify pre-marital sex.

    2. .As for polygamy, I absolutely do not have a problem with polygamy as long as it is between adults of consenting age. I would have no problems or qualms accepting polygamy as a choice. There is nothing immoral about polygamy and nor do I give a damn about morals when it comes to individual choices and liberties. I can readily accept polygamy as an available lifestyle choice. How about you?

    3.I did not suggest or advocate anywhere that you should absolutely act on everyone of your natural instincts or that the people who act according to their natural instincts are inferior or superior or smart or stupid compared to their counterparts.

    And as for marriages, I concur it is an extension of the private property institution. In most western societies, marriage is mostly a legal contract between two adults to be in a relationship and have certain privileges and rights in case of disputes.
    I am married but I do not have any illusions that my relationship with my partner is anymore sacred or sanctimonious than a couple living together without being married. I would have been just as happy and content living with him without being married and it is just a legal formality in my view anyways.
     
  5. Malavika81

    Malavika81 Bronze IL'ite

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    Marriage is an act of discretion and it is an individual choice. The society does not force you to get married or not get married. And to be truthful, in most civilized countries, marriage is just a legal formality for couples in relationship, in case disputes over certain rights and privileges arise in the future.

    I am a little fuzzy on your question or comparison between extramarital affair and premarital sex. However I'll try and answer it to the best of what I comprehended. Are you trying to say premarital sex is the same as an extramarital affair? Well when you had premarital sex, you were not legally committed to a person or took an oath of monogamy. When you have an extramarital affair, you breached the vow you took to remain monogamous so it affects the other party. The operative word in this case is not 'acting on urge' but the difference between being committed and non-committed. Not the same and I fail to see the connection or why you would compare pre-marital sex and extramarital affair and equate them.

    That is like firing a bullet on a dummy target in a shooting range vs firing a bullet on a live human target in a street and say why is one different from the other as I fired a bullet towards a target and that is the common theme and why am I being arrested and charged for one over the other LOL
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2010
  6. Garg

    Garg New IL'ite

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    When the sexual desire is gone, and something unexpected happens, some of them have the psychological fear, inferiority. Because premarital sex occurred in the majority of those who lack the knowledge of sex and experience, they may be pregnant after having sex, which may do great harm to these women physically and psychologically. Some of the disease once infected, there is no way to treat the disease, such as AIDS.
    According to analysis and what we discussed above, I think premarital sexual experience has pros and cons, and by and large, the benefit of premarital sex is far less than the disadvantages
     
  7. blesyp

    blesyp New IL'ite

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    Pre Marital Sex

    Recently the Supreme Court said that there is nothing illegal about pre-marital sex and also absolved actress Kushboo, who was involved in a controversy over her statement on it.

    In this context, what is your opinion about pre-marital sex? Do you think it is wrong/immoral? As far as I know it is not common in Indian society, but I may be wrong.

    Is it more prevalent in Western society? What has been your personal experience? Have you done it or have you noticed it among friends/peers in college/school?
     
  8. shaluiyer

    shaluiyer New IL'ite

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    Re: Pre Marital Sex

    Hi there,


    A very good topic to start. Wonder what many moms has got to say:?:

    I have had many of my friends who had premarial Sex and has married some one else.

    Ethically it is wrong, but now since ever one are moving towards this so called western culture..... they seem to be fine with this concept too. As far as i am concerned.... it depends from person to person. How would you accept if the Guy who is gonna marry us has already had this experience?

    shaluiyer
     
  9. Malavika81

    Malavika81 Bronze IL'ite

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    Re: Pre Marital Sex

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with premarital sex and it is an individual choice and individual liberty. And there is nothing moral or immoral about premarital sex either. People who choose not to have premarital sex cannot infringe on the rights on people who choose to indulge in it and nor do they have a right to legislate their choices based on their own morality, for everyone.

    And I believe there was already a thread on this topic a while back as I remember participating in it.
    http://www.indusladies.com/forums/married-life/81899-is-premarital-sex-right.html
     
  10. Spiderman1

    Spiderman1 Gold IL'ite

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    This thread is running multiple pages :)

    I think it is fairly clear that people are going to hold onto their own views in this. I dont see either side giving an inch to the other.

    What is the final verdict? :coffee
     
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