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If God Exists, Why Isn't It Obvious?

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Gauri03, Jul 27, 2016.

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Jul 28, 2016 #41

kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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Page 4 Gauri garu Page 4!!! Annnd not just US! #K-Dance!

kaniths, Jul 28, 2016

kaniths, Jul 28, 2016

#41

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Jul 28, 2016 #42

VaniVyas Platinum IL'ite

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Sorry dear,s for not dropping in my point of view. Will do later.

Tagging @jayasala42 since I think she will do a good justice of the topic.

VaniVyas, Jul 28, 2016

VaniVyas, Jul 28, 2016

#42

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Jul 28, 2016 #43

Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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GoogleGlass said: ↑

Concious, family values, virtues, upbringing, social awareness/responsibilty, love towards co-existers and very many others keep me going. A strong mind that does not fail in undue stress, issues, problems can take you forward by not leaning to or blaming the so called existence of an unknown power.
Click to expand...

I see a lot of commonality in our thought processes. I imagine it must be the same for all who've made this journey from one side of the gallery to the other. As they say, all babies are born atheists. They have to be taught religion. : ) So the path to the unlearning perhaps brings us back to a homologous state. I find your quote above very pertinent and moving. In some sense, I feel that as an atheist I am more keenly aware of my values and duties. Maybe it is knowing that there is no eternal reward that awaits me. There is no eternal life. That this life is all I have. It gives me the impetus to live and cherish this brilliant accident of my birth. Paraphrasing Dr Carl Sagan, I was dead for billions of years and I will be dead for billions of years. By a freak alignment of atoms, for a blip on the cosmic timescale I am alive as a sapient being. What bigger miracle do I need to know how precious my life is?

Gauri03, Jul 28, 2016

Gauri03, Jul 28, 2016

#43

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Jul 28, 2016 #44

kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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As they say, all babies are born atheists. They have to be taught religion.
Click to expand...

The joke goes like babies are atheists until they are fed with lies!! No offense people! : )

kaniths, Jul 28, 2016

kaniths, Jul 28, 2016

#44

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Jul 28, 2016 #45

ashima10 Platinum IL'ite

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Akanksha1982 said: ↑

Hey Gauri, so finally you started the thread. Thanks.

My journey has been from a believer to non-believer to believer again.
Today, I believe in God. But more on the lines described in the movie PK.
My mother was very religious. Growing up, I used to hear all the prayers and slokas she recited. My GrandMa was also very religious and I used to sit next to her as she read religious books. We siblings used to look forward to festivals for special food.
Growing up my relation to the God was with respect to exams. Used to pray hard during exams. It was just the fear of exams. Even today, if I have to take a test, I am nervous. Just the way I am.
In adult life, I was just following my mom's rituals and reciting the Slokas and the prayers that got recorded in my subconscious mind during childhood.
One day, when I reached home from work, my mom was having shortness of breath. We took her to the hospital and within a week she passed away. During that week, I prayed and prayed and prayed.
Losing my mom was difficult for me. I had just come to terms with life after losing my father suddenly because of heart attack. I was devastated. I lost trust in God. I became a non-believer. I stopped the rituals, stopped the occasional visits to temple. All the questions about life, its purpose, who is God, why do we need God, etc came coming up in my mind.
Then while traveling for business or vacation, I came across different religions or faiths that were developed in different parts of the world centuries ago. That got me into thinking about God again. I started reading religious books of different religions. Bhagwad Gita was more helpful in clearing my understanding of God.
Now I believe in God, a power that did create the universe, the beautiful world, the echo system that created the beautiful world that is systematic. If it was coincidence, then the world would have been haphazard. For systematic evolution, there has to be some power. Nose happens to grow on the face only for all human beings born in US or China. Grown on any other place of the body would still have fulfilled it's function. But there is symmetry, and a system.
Evils are more of our perspectives. History is written by victorious. So the defeated becomes the evil. We feel someone is evil but from their perspective they may feel we are evil. So who is right who is wrong.
Belief in God, just gives me hope and strength to deal with tough times and helps me realize my blessings. That's all that God means to me. God to me is much bigger than any religion. Religion needs God to exists itself but God doesn't need any religion.

My belief in God and the way I see God is my personal. I respect every religion and also non believers. I don't thrust my belief on anyone or expect anyone to agree or disagree with me.

Umeed pe duniya kaayam hai...
Click to expand...

You echoed me so well. Also brought up some memories which has the power the moist the eyes even now. almost a decade has passed since i lost someone so close.....and like a crazy i prayed...was in school.

ashima10, Jul 28, 2016

ashima10, Jul 28, 2016

#45

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Jul 28, 2016 #46

Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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kaniths said: ↑

"If God has all abilities as claimed to be, does it not override that very same fact since he CANNOT die, him being an immortal???"
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You remind me of this exchange from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The object in question is an imaginary creature called the Babel fish which can instantly translate any language into brainwaves and help you understand even languages you've never heard before. -- : )

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the NON-existence of God.
The argument goes like this:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic."

Gauri03, Jul 28, 2016

Gauri03, Jul 28, 2016

#46

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Jul 28, 2016 #47

kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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^^^ Classic!

Last edited: Jul 28, 2016

kaniths, Jul 28, 2016

kaniths, Jul 28, 2016

#47

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Jul 28, 2016 #48

Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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Sairindhri said: ↑

There was a quote by a discourse provider, where he would answer, if God is there, where is he?
Can anyone tell us in which direction the dia (a lit lamp) shows the light! It illuminates the entire place, there is no particular direction, so is God! Cannot define where he is either! Omnipresent.
Click to expand...

Omnipresent, yet not present where he is needed most? : ) Begs the question, doesn't it?

I understand what you are saying but it boils down to the same contention -- faith. In order to 'know' that god exists, you must first believe that he exists. Kinda roundabout way to prove your existence, isn't it?

Gauri03, Jul 28, 2016

Gauri03, Jul 28, 2016

#48

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Jul 28, 2016 #49

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Gauri03 said: ↑

I see a lot of commonality in our thought processes. I imagine it must be the same for all who've made this journey from one side of the gallery to the other. As they say, all babies are born atheists. They have to be taught religion. : ) So the path to the unlearning perhaps brings us back to a homologous state. I find your quote above very pertinent and moving. In some sense, I feel that as an atheist I am more keenly aware of my values and duties. Maybe it is knowing that there is no eternal reward that awaits me. There is no eternal life. That this life is all I have. It gives me the impetus to live and cherish this brilliant accident of my birth. Paraphrasing Dr Carl Sagan, I was dead for billions of years and I will be dead for billions of years. By a freak alignment of atoms, for a blip on the cosmic timescale I am alive as a sapient being. What bigger miracle do I need to know how precious my life is?
Click to expand...

yes G ji this is GG, there is a commanality

true the paths taken are the same but only the time taken, the means taken and the quantum of realization differs.

you are very decent in saying "to be taught religion" unlike K and me - we go for "fed with lies".

am little better off, am not that keen on reading, though couldn't avoid basic education, had to.

when one doesn't believe in eternal life, you have control as you are aware of the life expectancy and the objectives - similar to goal setting exercises in corporate board rooms.

when one believes in eternal and the non-existent, you justify carrying old baggage of previous births and that you would carry forward to future births - lift both hands up and say "all in creators hand", have done my best, as a doc would say.

GoogleGlass, Jul 28, 2016

GoogleGlass, Jul 28, 2016

#49

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Jul 28, 2016 #50

Sairindhri Gold IL'ite

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Gauri03 said: ↑

Omnipresent, yet not present where he is needed most? : ) Begs the question, doesn't it?

I understand what you are saying but it boils down to the same contention -- faith. In order to 'know' that god exists, you must first believe that he exists. Kinda roundabout way to prove your existence, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Hi,
It depends on how much faith the person has Gauri. A person with full faith, would definitely have experienced his presence, but I can't tell why and how that happens and for few people only.
Yes, kind of roundabout existence.
There had been incidences of doubts before, but time changes a person.
If there is any person, who say their belief is forever, would you accept it?
No, right! Because we do change and situations change.
Well, I understand what you are trying to imply, why God is not coming for the sufferers at the right time and in the first instance why make them suffer?
Look, I am not a discourse presenter, to counter your arguments, but I would focus my attention on from Why to How to help. There is no way I can answer Why, but there are ways for me to answer How I can help.
This is where I find religion helping me, where as I have not yet found science helping me there. It is all in the thought process. Maybe for you science helps to find the answer, either way do what you are happy with.
We will just leave it like, that I have found solace and peace in what I do and the in the way I do. If others find solace the other way, I am not against it either.
Sorry Gauri, I will not argue any longer here. I will leave it for others to give their perspectives.
Cheers.

Sairindhri, Jul 28, 2016

Sairindhri, Jul 28, 2016

#50

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