If God Exists, Why Isn't It Obvious?

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Gauri03, Jul 27, 2016.

Where do your stand on the belief spectrum?

  1. Devout believer

  2. Believer with some doubts

  3. Agnostic (don't know)

  4. Leaning towards atheism

  5. Atheist

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  1. Sairindhri

    Sairindhri Gold IL'ite

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    Not at all!
    Atoms - yes, but that does not deny the fact that you are able to feel the breeze. You might say of course the nervous system and the connections thereforth, but not all people with normal nervous system enjoy it. You need some kind of personality to enjoy it.
    Tell me which hormone promotes total hatred.
    The hormones are released because of the stress, nothing more than that!
    There is no single hormone which has been proved or linked to hatred.
    yes, can tell oxytocin can promote love, but that does not mean if less oxytocin, less love.
    No, lacks evidence!
     
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  2. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Such a huge topic, almost as big as how did life start. Am glad there are enough questions, to answer, and while doing so examine one's thoughts all over again!

    Why are you an atheist? Happened little by little over time, like a child taking tentative steps towards the deeper side of the pool. There were many factors. Couple of the main ones were specific incidents in my and one sibling's lives. Another was reading and interacting with other non-believers. I wish I could say it was logic and thinking that made me an atheist, but that's not how it happened. I became an atheist (effectively) and then looked for reasons and identified some that suited me.

    Tell us: about life as an atheist/agnostic, on reconciling with the religious underpinnings of our culture
    Life is pretty straightforward as in there is not much of "conscious atheism". It is very similar to that of family friends who are believers but low key on rituals/observances. We live far from our parents/siblings, and locally not into any specific Indian language/community groups. So, any reconciliation is mostly needed only in our minds! There is no pressure or expectation from anywhere/anybody to follow any thing. Plus, we are not very analytical in this respect. So, never did any too deep thinking about it. I occasionally wonder about the after-life, and heaven/hell, but there is rarely enough contiguous time for that thought train to go far.

    On raising a family as a nonbeliever
    This is where I second-guess myself the most. If one parent is a believer, and the other a non-believer or half-believer : ) the child gets to examine both ways of life, and can make his/her choice. In our case, it is a very atheist household. I wonder whether we are short-changing the kids in one way. But I guess, we (parents) had the opportunity to choose atheism in adult life, the kids will have the opportunity to become believers if they choose to.

    What does spirituality mean to you?
    I am going to skip this question. It is a bit beyond my current self-examination. And I have a certain disdain for the (rather cliched) term that needs to be cleared up before I can fairly think what it means to me.

    Morality:
    Mine usually matches the laws of the land where I live. : )

    More later....
     
  3. Sairindhri

    Sairindhri Gold IL'ite

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    BTW I don't have time to argue here.
    Either you feel it or you don't.
    Either way it is upto you to decide.
    I will not entering in to debate mode here.

    I can show my persepectives here! I have made my stance clear, I am not here to preach people, I told my POV. That is all.
     
  4. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    I totally get it. Like you, my own father is a quietly devout man. He doesn't make a show of his religion but his faith is unshakable. He believes fervently in his beloved god. If I could manage a unperturbed belief like his or yours, I'd take in a heartbeat.

    But tormented minds must question, and the answers elude me. : )

    PS: I do see an interesting parallel in our POVs. Will bring it up in a later post.
     
  5. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for sharing. Don't take it as being questioned. You have an interesting perspective. We'll all benefit if you share. : )
     
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  6. Sairindhri

    Sairindhri Gold IL'ite

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    No time Gauri.Will see if I get time later.
    I am spiritual, not that I am avid reader etc, but I have learnt by listening to others. Discourses etc and so many things make me view world in an entirely different way. My perpectives are basically what I learn from life. BTW you don't have to come from a totally spiritual family, to be spiritual as others also told. It just happens. Just like how to say, why do we see some people, being born intelligent, some become so with hard work, some aren't etc. Even though there is not much evidence in the physiology of those people nervous system, they are all different.
    Can't find answers to certain things, and we turn directions and try to seek it. So why does a person become spiritual, it just happens, no one teaches you, no one asks you, no one forces it on you. It has to happen to you. It happened to me from younger age, that is all, I can tell you here.

    Sorry have to go, later if time permits.
     
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  7. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Adding - I personally don't think morality, kindness, personal ethics etc are based on spirituality. Spirituality is just like any other personal trait. It's not more important than any other and its absence does not mean someone is lacking morally. Some people give it too much importance. My God should never over shadow my common sense. If that happens then it's called being irrational. Isn't that what is happening with radicalization in the name of God?
    I also don't think things are always black and white. What to me is a small thing is quite big for someone else. I cannot stand the holier than thou attitude of people, spiritual or not.

    Regarding bad and good - I'm not always good. I'm sure I can find a good and a bad in me today. Isn't that the same with everyone? I can never understand how being good is attributed to being religious or spiritual. I am my own worst critic so I don't need some external force to make me tow the line. I don't believe in eternal damnation if I do something that the creator has said shouldn't be done. I do believe my conscience will do enough.

    Why do little kids undergo horrible unspeakable things? I don't know. The other day I read the blog of a mom who lost her 5 year old to DIPG. Read this -
    Hey Krishna Hey Krishna

    Sometimes God doesn't give answers but provides the crutch to rationalize the unimaginable. Maybe faith provides a way to go on with life when the unthinkable happens. Don't doc's put people in induced comas to deal with brain injuries? Something like that? To surrender to something even if it gives some solace for a brief period.
     
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  8. Gauri03

    Gauri03 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    I suppose if I had to pinpoint one reason why I simply cannot convince myself to believe, it is the problem of evil. There is such staggering misery in our world. Not to start a sob story, but my own experiences are such that I cannot imagine a loving god sits by and lets these things happen. We are mere humans but when we see a bird fall out of a nest, we get agitated. We want to do something, fix it. How then can an all powerful being not intervene when we suffer?

    When I was a teen, I came up with this logic -- if god is good and powerful then why doesn't he fix evil? If he is not good why should I pray to him? I was damn proud of my brilliance, until later in life I read Epicurus. He was a Greek philosopher who came up with a classic dilemma.

    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent.
    Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent.
    Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?"

    So much for originality. : ) This guy thought of it 2000 years ago, and he said it so much better than I did.

    Why? Why indeed?
     
  9. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    Just for pun! Take it easy! :)

    3oqud2.jpg
     
  10. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    @Gauri03 - Personal experiences are what makes us who we are. Even our belief system is based on our life experiences. I don't think any one side can rationalize and prove to the other. It's what you feel and you have every right to feel that way. I'm assuming you have found the way to cope with your past difficulties without needing God as the medium. That to me is even harder than having a belief system. When I pray, I don't really pray for a miracle. I do pray for the strength to cope with my inner turmoil. You found ways to get that strength from elsewhere. That's all that matters.

    Regarding why evil exists, it's nothing the rational or spiritual mind can explain. I read about brain studies of serial killers being done to figure out what makes them kill(someone once told me autistic individuals are more prone to become killers, I almost became one that day!). Apparently nothing in those studies could pin point to why some people are the way they are. Their brains are not different from ours, nothing stood out. Then why? Who knows. Hopefully our kids will find some more about the human brain and its wiring and then they can explain it all. Why some people feel the need to kill, why some want to believe, why some others cannot - Afterall, it's all hidden in our neural networks somewhere!
     

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