Extra marital relationships

riya123 · Aug 15, 2014

[Are these rebels to be pitied, censured or accepted?]
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i have been wanting to contribute to this thread but could never find enough time.
well I think that we are no one to pity, censure or accept the rebels. It is basically not our job to judge the rebels as we have not lived their life and not known the circumstances in which they have gone the rebellious way.

on another note, I was just thinking, human beings are not designed for monogamy. Nature in no way supports monogamy. Can you at least name one species where nature allows mating with only one partner. Nature allows as many permutations and combinations as possible for mating. When nature does not impose this rule then who are we humans to impose the rule of monogamy.

Having said that, monogamy is a ' man made rule'.. We have made this rule to support the structure of a society, family and also for various economic reasons. Monogamy is not natural to humans.

we all want to follow monogamy because it tends to give stability to a family, provide a safe environment for upbringing of children and also creates faith and trust among family members.

it is also important to notice that extra marital affairs are nothing new. I think it has existed ever since humans came into existence. If you look back in history it has been very common to have multiple partners- right from draupadi of Mahabharata, lord Krishna , prophet Mohammed to the middle century kings like Akbar , French kings each of them had mistresses, to modern age personalities like Einstein , Churchill .. I have quoted famous personalities because their lives are well known to people. I am sure the stats won't be any different with the ordinary people as well..

Those who want to stray are the people who would place their individual happiness higher than the benefits that monogamy provides.

Cheeniya · Aug 15, 2014

Dear riya
This is something I rambled about some seven years back! This FB of yours is coming after gap of two years since I got a last one! So every time, I get a comment , I need to go back to refresh my memory so that I do not keep repeating what I have already written. We have already covered enough ground in all these 80 odd interactions and still I do get a new angle to mull about.

Basically I started this thread to discuss the possible causes that drive a person to seek refuge in extra marital relationship (EMR). It was not my intention at all to be judgemental about these people. It has always been my belief that people who are in EMR ought to be feeling guilty about it sooner or later. The very fact that a feeling of guilt ensues from EMR indicates that most people consider it highly undesirable.

In times of yore, most men freely indulged in EMR and expected their wives to take it in their strides. It was possibly because of the fact that the womenfolk depended totally on the husbands for their security. Some men were blatantly open about their EMR and continuously bragged about it. The poor wife had to stomach it all and sulk silently. But when a woman was in EMR, the husband got devastated and the whole society rose against her! Over the years, the situation changed completely and now EMR transcends gender. The great social changes over the last couple of decades have increased mutual expectations enormously and consequently incompatibilities unheard of in the past have now come to play a major role in EMR.

You have mentioned about the polygamy angle. Nature might have intended polygamy for all living beings in the beginning but now the same nature is sounding grave bells of warning about polygamy. Life threatening diseases which are a direct result of multiple relationship are forcing people back into monogamy! Chastity is forced on people for fear of life! Looks like there may be a final remedy for the social malady of EMR! We have crossed Sama, Dhana and Bedha and finally arrived at the stage of Dhanda! The Punishment!
Sri

jayasala42 · Aug 24, 2014

Just now I happened to go through the ramblings on EMR,that is being kept alive and burning for the past 7 years.
A few thoughts on Rama as 'Eka Patni Vratan"in this regard.It may be off the tangent.
Ramavathara is considered to be a model avathara for human excellence.

A number of ‘the bests’ are attributed to Rama.
Monogamy is one among the ‘bests’ or the dharmas exhibited by Rama.

Eka means one and also refers to the First One.
It is because of this, there continues to be controversies that Rama had other wives too.

Eka patni vratham is interpreted as commitment to the first wife!

The exponents of this claim used to point out Sita's lamentation in Ashka Vana, when she wants to end her life.

The exile period was nearing its end. She was abducted in the last year in exile.
She had already spent 10 months in Ashoka vana.
Only 2 more months were left for the return to Ayodhya.
But there was no sign of Rama coming to rescue her.
Having lost the hope that Rama could find her whereabouts,
Sita was lamenting that Rama would have to go back to Ayodhya without finding her
After going back, he would be coronated and live happily with beautiful women!
Sloka 14,28th Sargam of Sundara kaanadam of Valmiki Ramayana reads thus:
piturnidesham niyamena kritvaa
vanaanivriththas charithavrathascha
streebhisthu manye vipulekshanaabhi:
tvam ramsyase veethabhaya:krithaartha:
( Verbatim translation meaning:Having fulfilled the promise given to your father ,you have returned from the forest and reached Ayodhya.Having complted the commitments undertaken, you have become care free and fear free and there fore I think that you are enjoying your time with other women with beautiful elongated eyes")

Why should Sita entertain such a doubt or why should Valmiki picturise Mahalakshmi having a suspicion on her husband?Is it not an insult to Lord Rama?
Just as a single drop of poison malifies entire milk in a vessel, this single sloka, though considered as a lamentation by Sita,( as normal to anybody in Sita's position) creates a black spot.
This does not stop here.

This is seen by some as an indication that Rama had other wives too.

This controversy had always existed in the past and had been countered well.
The most popular argument is that why did Rama have the golden image of Sita beside him in doing the Ashwamedha Yagam, if he had other wives.

But then, sastras say that only the first wife has the right to take part in homas or in any activity where the wife’s presence is needed. The second wife has no role while the first wife is still alive.

As per Vaasthu Sastra even if a person has many wives, only the first wife has the right in poojas performed at home.

The dimensions of the house that is to be built also must take into account the ‘angula- pramana’ of the husband or his first wife or the eldest son born of the first wife. Even if the other wives were to live in that house, no importance is given to them in any Vaastu related activities or in poojas.

Viewed from this perspective, it can be argued that even if Rama had other wives, he could not have had any of them with him in doing the yajna when Sita was still alive. That could have prompted him to make the image of Sita to accompany him in the yajna.
Just because Rama made a gold Prathima of Sita( his first wedded wife) for doing Ashwamedha yagnam, it cannot be proved to ensure that Rama was Ekapatni Vratan.
However astrologers examining Rama's horoscope say convincingly that Saturn and Venus being in exalted positions in Rama's horoscope, a person with such planetary position cannot but be a monogamist.
Leave alone Rama,an epic hero.
It has been stated by someone that nature has intended creating all the creatures as polygamists only and human beings are no exceptions.
(Reply continues in the next mail)

Jayasala 42

jayasala42 · Aug 24, 2014

Wife is always a better half and not a bitter half.
When one half is still with him, he can not create another half of himself,to be shared with another woman.

This is corroborated in science too that all people are half brained!!

The right hemisphere of the brain,normally used by women stands for creativity, instincts, radical thoughts, originality etc. The left brain,normally used by men controls only actions.

Vedas have been formulated by learned sages only for the welfare of human beings.
There is not even a single mantra in the entire 4 vedas advocating more than one wife/husband.The word " Jaaya' and 'Pati' is specifically used in SINGULAR only.
All mantras relating to marriage are specifically in dual number ( a speciality of Sanskrit language)implying monogamy alone.
The Atharva veda chapter dealing entirely with marriage specifically emphasizes 'faith' for the entire life time.
Atharva veda speaks through the mouth of wife"You should only be mine"- A strict prohibition of polygamy.
In addition to supporting monogamy Rig veda and Atharva veda deals with evils of having multiple wives/husbands in practical view point.

Dharma is equal to both genders in this respect.

Moksha is attained after one crosses artha and kaama in a dharmic way.
The 4 purusharthas are Dharma, Artha, Kama & Moksha.
The middle two are testing techniques.

One should know what is Dharma In acquiring Artha or wealth and what is Dharma in Kaama in personal life.
Monogamy is the only Dharma that should be adhered to in pursuit of Kama.

.To quote Tulsi Das " Regard wealth other than your own as a mere stone and a woman other than your wife as mother.If following this, you do not attain God,Tulsidas will become your surety to attain God'

Maladjustments, disharmony,intellectual incompatibility,financial inequality and temporary struggles/conflicts cannot be quoted as pretexts under which EMR can be justified.Human beings endowed with reasoning and Free Will are not expected to compare themselves with animals/plants just to justify polygamy.

Jayasala 42

Cheeniya · Aug 25, 2014

Dear jayasala
I am grateful to you for your highly informative reply to my seven year old rambling! It was like having a guest lecturer from Tretha Yuga trying to drill some sense into the confused minds of Kali Yuga. Honestly, when I first posted this thread seven years back, it was only with the intention of trying to understand the psychology of the individuals who were prone to go astray. It was certainly not my intention to moralise on the subject. I was myself not a saint to assume such powers! I never wanted to make Lord Rama as a touch stone for our moral depravities. He lived in an age when every other person was as virtuous as he was. The scriptures say that three fourths of the population of Tretha Yuga were extremely virtuous. His own brother Lakshmana was no less than his noble brother in his virtues. When he was asked to describe Sita he says that he had seen only her toe nails!

We now live in a mad house called Kali Yuga. Stories from Tretha Yuga are as awe inspiring as the stories of my grand mother of how a family of ten could live comfortably within Rs.25 a month! She would tell us that whenever visitors came to the house, the ladies would go behind the kitchen door to await instructions about what the guests would like to eat or drink! When women were so faithful to the well established family traditions, the men never felt it necessary to remain truthful to their women. Even the mothers of these men defended their sons saying 'Ambillaina appidi ippidithan iruppan'! (Men are licensed to be bit promiscuous in their life). When women were asked to be like Sita and Kannagi, nobody drilled into men's heads that they needed to be like Rama!

When I say all this, I do not want to be misunderstood as being supportive of EMR. FAR FROM IT! I am only trying to understand this problem as a mental aberration and seek a solution to it. When millions lead a virtuous life despite having the same problems of incompatibilities,why a chosen few succumb to them and fall into EMR? Why can't they follow the examples of a million others and divert their minds to bringing up their children, developing some creative interests etc.? Nine out of ten murder cases that I see in the newspapers are related to EMR and in this vendetta even little children are killed mercilessly. This is a matter of grave concern to all the right thinking people.
Sri

malinisarovar · Sep 11, 2014

Hi,I am so glad that Jayasala explained about the Vedic mantras. There are only a few who know these things and this is the proof that monogamy is the best path. In the past, when polygamy was accepted in the society the wife would know what is in store for her. However, in today's world you get into a relationship thinking that the partner would only love you. Thus, any move (by thought, word or action) against this is wrong indeed. I understand that sometimes human beings may end up doing something that we did not intend to do. In such instances, let them take the courage to admit it and not repeat it, rather than trying to hide it and pretend that it never happened.

I wish that the universe gets filled with true love and that every couple love each other to the depth of their heart. Only this would bring peace and progress in the society. Let people stay together only out of love, not because of society, status, security, fear, children or anything else. Let there be a world where there is no such word as marriage, let there be only love. According to me, When you love a person so much one life will not be sufficient with that person. Sadly, even love marriages don't escape from EMA. Such marriages are just "love marriages" and are not done out of love.

Cheeniya · Sep 11, 2014

Dear malini
Thank you for visiting this thread that I wrote long back and giving your views. When I first posted it, I never expected it to survive this long with the number of views exceeding 30000! It only goes to show that some topics have eternal relevance.

The earliest perceived case of EMR was the sad story of Renuka, wife of Jamadagni, one of the Seven Great Sages. Renuka's chastity and her devotion to her husband were so absolute that the water that she fetched in a pot of unbaked clay would remain intact only by the power of her chastity. One day as she was fetching water in a similar pot for her husband, she saw the reflection of some Gandarvas traversing the sky and stood looking at them for a second. The pot immediately dissolved and she got so frightened that she had no nerve to return to the Ashram. Meanwhile Jamadagni, irked by the unusual delay of his wife, came to know of the event of the momentary lapse of his wife, got enraged and ordered her to be beheaded. The first four sons refused and were cursed to become stone statues but the fifth, Lord Parasurama had no hesitation in carrying out his father's command. The much pleased Jamadagni granted his son two boons. With those boons, Parasurama got his mother and brothers revived with the incident completely erased from their minds.

When we talk of chastity now, it mostly refers to a husband and wife remaining in wedlock for a life time. Monogamy refers to the state of a husband having only one wife at any given point of time! This is just a legal state and without breaking this status, they develop other relationships, even then they are supposed to be in 'monogamy'! There are thousands of 'monogamous' couples who are in EMR and the society just wink over them! This is sad indeed!

Your second para makes a lot of sense and is truly idyllic. But unfortunately 'love' is today the most maligned word. Even people who are in EMR talk of love. Whatever wafer thin distinction is there between love and lust is also slowly vanishing. Once there was this famous song that 'Love is a many splendoured thing' sung by the soulful Nat King Cole. It is now in the eternally 'Missing category' of human emotions!
Sri

kalpavriksham · Sep 12, 2014

Just one thing sir,

wish the married couples were the couples of O Henry's "Gift of Maggi"

it's a pipe-dream?

warm regards.

when one rests for the day, the conscience should smile , having steered clear of any temptations.

Cheeniya · Sep 12, 2014

Who says it's a pipe-dream? Gift of the Magi kind of couples are very much in the realms of possibility. I presume that at least 10% of the world population would be in this category but there are very few 'O Henrys who bother even to notice them, let alone write about them!

riya123 · Sep 22, 2014

Cheeniya said: ↑

In times of yore, most men freely indulged in EMR and expected their wives to take it in their strides. It was possibly because of the fact that the womenfolk depended totally on the husbands for their security. Some men were blatantly open about their EMR and continuously bragged about it. The poor wife had to stomach it all and sulk silently. But when a woman was in EMR, the husband got devastated and the whole society rose against her!
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Sir, I can give specific examples that may not be aligned with your thinking. Mughal Ruler, Akbar the great, had 6 wives. At one point he married his commander's wife. He married her after his commander died. Yes, he married a widow. He married a widow when he already had 2 other wives. He married her because he was a king and was in a position to provide a good life to the widow and her children.
Looking at this you still want to say that women sulked and stomached men's behavior in olden days? We have not lived those days and not those lives. We better leave our judgements

You have mentioned about the polygamy angle. Nature might have intended polygamy for all living beings in the beginning but now the same nature is sounding grave bells of warning about polygamy. Life threatening diseases which are a direct result of multiple relationship are forcing people back into monogamy
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Sir, we dont stop breathing air because there are air borne (life threatening diseases). We dont stop drinking water because there are water borne diseases. Science will soon come up with medicines to combat these diseases just the way we have medicines to deal with air borne and water borne diseases.

Human beings endowed with reasoning and Free Will are not expected to compare themselves with animals/plants just to justify polygamy.

Jayasala 42
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Man, no matter how smart he is with all his free will and reasoning power, he has never been able to win over nature. My argument was not to compare humans with animals but to tell that nature does not forbid Polygamy. Man has never won over nature.

If nature allows polygamy and man forbids polygamy, nature will ultimately win.

Man can build the smartest of innovations - which can be washed away in a moment's fury by nature.