Expansion of the seed verse, Bhagavad Gita- 2.11.

Discussion in 'Chitvish on Hindu Culture & Vedanta' started by Chitvish, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    We grieve or feel helpless and unhappy at the decay of things, knowing that we have no power to stop the same. This grief benumbs our abilities, weakens our daring, saps up our courage and removes our hopes and joy.

    S(h)ochya is that which deserves grief, that which has legitimate basis for sorrow.
    When some one dies, there is sadness even if death is a relief to a person who was suffering extreme pain. Death is synonymous with mourning and can be called s(h)ochya universally.

    There is very often personal s(h)ochya also. The same event may revoke contrasting emotions in different persons. There goes the saying
    One man’s meat is another man’s poison !
    This is individual s(h)ochya.

    An object of sorrow or s(h)oka is called s(h)ochya, be it an event or an experience.

    A situation that does not cause sorrow is called as(h)ochya.
    Krishna says that Arjuna was grieving where it was not warranted and that Panditas do not entertain any grief.

    Panda means self-knowledge and the one who has self-knowledge is Pandita.
    The really wise have realized the Eternal Reality between all phenomenal changes and do not grieve at the decay and the death of the finite and the mortal.

    Every day we do not condole the death of the day, for we know that the sun has really not “gone”, that it has gone only to rise back in twelve hours !
    Any of our breaths can be the last ! There is a gap between every inhalation and exhalation. Only when the next breath comes, we are sure the previous breath was not the last.

    This verse makes a distinction between one who has breathed his last and one who has not. Men of wisdom do not entertain any grief for either the dead or for the not dead.

    This is hinted because Arjuna was talking about the imminent deaths of his teachers and family members. Destruction is involved in a battle field and this is one reason.

    Krishna hints that what should be discussed is Atma, which is not subject to death. A wise man does not look upon anything as a source of sorrow because there is no source of sorrow.

    What can cause sorrow? It can be only
    Yourself (atma)
    Or
    A source other than yourself (anatma)

    Analysing atma and anatma from this perspective of sorrow to oneself, is the Gita’s sole subject matter. Arjuna’s grief was due to his not knowing the difference between atma and anatma. Knowing the difference is viveka, which can only solve the problem. This important verse identifies the subject matter of Gita as atma-anatma-viveka and states the result of that viveka – knowing themselves, the wise do not grieve.
    From the practical person’s standpoint, any sorrow is not result-producing and hence is not legitimate.

    From a pragmatist’s point of view, sorrow is not going to help you, in any way.
    Thus we see that sorrow is born out of confusion, aviveka. What is subject to change will definitely change. Grief therefore is never legitimate.

    If we understand everything from the standpoint of Atma, there is no sorrow. From anyother point also, sorrow is not reasonable. Gita only says that sorrow is something to be enquired into and understood.

    We will next discuss that atma is satya (real) and anatma is mithya (false). Just as the svarupa (basic property) of water is not affected by the wave, the svarupa of the atma, sat-chit-ananda is not affected by anatma. This is the subject matter discussed in the Gita, starting with this verse. To begin the teaching with the statement “There is no room for sorrow” in this verse, is therefore a very effective beginning, even though a negative particle was used.
    Thus we conclude that those who have realized the Eternal and Blissful Truth have no sorrow for the “change”, they perceive in the phenomenal world of happenings.

    Love,
    Chithra.
     
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  2. Shanvy

    Shanvy IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Hi chithmam,

    Wonderful explanation....Thus we conclude that those who have realized the Eternal and Blissful Truth have no sorrow for the “change”, they perceive in the phenomenal world of happenings....looks like i have a very long way to go....though i dont have sorrow for the change i still am affected by other situations......
     
  3. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Dear Shanthi,
    Inspite of a busy deepavali morning, that you bothered to read my post & send me a quick FB, endears you to me !
    Do not think, it is easy for anybody, not to grieve. We just make a beginning by understanding that it is futile to grieve - ofcourse, we do it knowingly, always. But that is where heart (emotions) take a lead over head (rational thoughts) !
    Let us progress gradually, in steps !
    Thankyou, Shanthi.
    Love,
    Chithra.
     
  4. vidhi

    vidhi Senior IL'ite

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Dear Chith

    Your explanation is superb! I liked the example - Every day we do not condole the death of the day, for we know that the sun has really not “gone”, that it has gone only to rise back in twelve hours !

    Almost in so many situations in life we know that grieving is not the solution to the problem. But still we are unable to control it. But life's experiences teaches us so many things as we take each and every step. Great article chith..

    Happy Deepavali!

    Love
    vidhi

     
  5. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Dear Vidhi,
    Thankyou very much.
    Instead of trying to control our emotions, I always feel, it is better to go through them and be done with them for ever ! Suppression is never the solution !
    Just because, I write these posts, do not ever think, I am totally free from S(h)ochya - no. I too go through the cycles of emotions !
    Love,
    Chithra.
     
  6. sudhavnarasimhan

    sudhavnarasimhan Silver IL'ite

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Dear Chithra,

    HAPPY DIWALI to you ! hope you had a great Diwali with family. How did u manage to post something so deep on such a busy morning!
    i just loved this weeks post! Yes it is difficult not to feel sorrow...though we know that we have to accept changes and etc etc......But it does help when we understand that change is inevitable.
    These lines are great......very in depth meaning! if only we can understand that then we will face everything in our life with equanimity!
    "Every day we do not condole the death of the day, for we know that the sun has really not “gone”, that it has gone only to rise back in twelve hours !
    Any of our breaths can be the last ! There is a gap between every inhalation and exhalation. Only when the next breath comes, we are sure the previous breath was not the last."

     
  7. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Dear Sudha,
    Thanks.
    I had already written this post. I was wondering whether to post it today or not !:spin
    Finally I decided to go ahead !
    Coming out of grief or not grieving - both are far from easy. But do we have any choice in life at all?
    So, it is better to understand, the futility of grieving, atleast over the years or very often janmas !
    Love,
    Chithra.
     
  8. Anandchitra

    Anandchitra IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Dear Chithra
    Thanks for writing such an incredible piece on an important subject. Most times we do know the sorrow and reason for it and mostly it may be justified But there are times when we do feel sorrow and find it difficult to explain Does those moments make us pause and step back to realise the Atma? This is really a very difficult topic which can be explained in layman terms by you.We know the sun has not gone but will rise again so we feel no sorrow that is a reasoning of our mental facility. That we do not know it could be our last breathe is maya since we are under the illusion that we are going to breathe for ever. Viveka is the only solution since it helps us diagonise the difference in atma and anatma Once we know that which is eternal and forever in its natural state we cease to grieve.
    Teacher correct me f i am wrong . Looking forward to more and Thank You
     
  9. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Dear AC,
    You have understood the concept very well.
    But still, I tell you, it is easily said than done - not to grieve. Whether we are able to practise it or not, the awareness about the difference between atma & anatma is important. Yes, it is viveka, as you rightly said.
    Thanks for taking so much of interest in an abstract topic !
    Love
    To
    Chitra
    From
    Chithra.
     
  10. Sriniketan

    Sriniketan IL Hall of Fame

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    Re: Expansion of the seed verse, 2.11.

    Every day we do not condole the death of the day, for we know that the sun has really not “gone”, that it has gone only to rise back in twelve hours !
    Any of our breaths can be the last ! There is a gap between every inhalation and exhalation. Only when the next breath comes, we are sure the previous breath was not the last
    .


    Rightly said, Mrs. Chitvish. If we could only remember this , our sorrows will be atleast tolerable. I think this is 'vivekam'..

    sriniketan
     

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