Education = Empowerment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

Viswamitra · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

Dear Satchi,

I am sorry for posting another response here. JAG and Shanvy brought up some very good points that made me think a little bit more. Besides social pressure, concern for parents, welfare of children, etc., there is some personal feeling to give it a try as much as possible. One who abuses sometimes reconcile quickly to make the institution of marriage work. The one who is being abused gives a long rope before making a firm step. May be they make the first effort to make it work by fixing the issue within the marriage. If that fails then only they think about separation. Even in Western world where separation is not uncommon, I know many are reluctant to walk away from the marriage. Even infidelity is pardoned very easily. Somehow, I feel some are influenced by the deep religious sentiments while others don't want to be part of a failed marriage. They probably consider that as a great intellectual challenge in case of elite families. Their ego might be deeply hurt that they were not able to make a marriage work. I am only guessing all these reasons as it is difficult to read the minds of couple who are not leading a healthy married life.

Speaking of social pressure, it is rather painful to watch programs like "Kalyanamalai" where the bridegrooms parents or siblings request for brides that are adjusting to the needs of the bridegroom's family. My question is why the adjustment is expected only from women and not from men? When the bride's parents or siblings request for bridegroom, they request for someone who would take very good care of the bride. In this situation, we consider the men to be the care taker and women to be the adjuster. Where is the equality? In the current generation, both men and women work and why one should be the caretaker and the other be one that adjusts to the needs of the husband? Why can't both play an equal role? These kind of social pressures should be completely eliminated.

Viswa

kelly1966 · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

Satchi.. dear.. this is "ghar Ghar ki Kahaani'.. it surpasses all classes/ religions and nations..
Kerman

Mindian · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

hey sats,

as always well written on a topic that gets us all agitated. But what everyone has said here makes so much sense.I agree with Shan that it has NOTHING to do with education.Self worth and confidence is what matters and parents play a huge role in developing this in their kids.I also agree with Balajee and Viswa sir about social pressure. it is the middle class that always thinks " what will people say".
anyway kudos to your maid for having the guts to come out of the relationship that gave her no happiness.

satchitananda · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

justanothergirl said: ↑

Dear Satchi...Relationships are very complicated. As an outsider it is very hard to fully comprehend the dynamics between a couple. We might see lovey-dovey pics on FB or be a witness to fights /rants ..but there is usually more ..much more than meets the eye. And its hard to walk out on a marriage.... social pressure or otherwise. Even in societies where women are financially independent with practically no social stigma attached to divorce..people still hang on to their marriages for as long as they can. I guess its just very hard to walk away from all that emotional attachment. What will others say..money.... all these might be just excuses the heart comes up with.
Click to expand...

Hi JAG, nice to see you here. No doubt, what we get to see as outsiders is only a partial picture. Also agree with you that it is hard to walk out of even a friendship or live-in relationship, leave alone a marriage. No one can deny the emotional issues involved, and I agree it makes it hard for anyone to quit a marriage. (In fact that is one reason I do not believe people walk out of marriages on a mere whim or that live-in relationships are any less emotionally valid than legally accepted ones).

However, when I talk of separation, I am talking of cases where continuing in the marriage is like whipping a dead horse. There is no emotional involvement left, there is no love left, in fact the only emotion left might be deep rooted resentment or even hatred, not to mention the risk of physical violence and more. What I am talking of is when women are so obviously in distress, but can't bring themselves to walk out despite claiming (yes, one can always ask if these claims are honest or not) their desire to get out. But when faced with the actual reality of walking out, I feel many still dither due to a certain inability to gather up their courage. It is (as far as I can see) the fear of the unknown as well as the known consequences that holds them back.

satchitananda · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

Dear Shyamala,

shyamala1234 said: ↑

Dear Satchi,

Yes, Balaji is right. In poorer classes they don't care for people around them. They take a bold step. In the case of your maid...she doesn't care a damn!

That is also only partially true Shyamala. In fact even these classes live in a very tight social fabric - relatives, family, neighbours ..... what will they think? They might not think twice before having a very public spat but for reasons of social "security" as well as fear of social boycott they too think a million times before quitting. Otherwise why do we have maids who stay in their marriages bearing so much of abuse and violence and then still going on to get their daughters married. Is this the much touted triumph of hope over experience? No, I don't think so. It is just that they don't see there being any other way of life. That is why they too endure. But finally when push came to shove, this lady showed some courage (despite previous hesitation). It is a different matter that her family forced or convinced her to allow this man back into the house. (Of course, I don't know what has followed. I generally wait till she tells me of her own accord).

Many times in life decisions depend on what is the alternative if I leave the present status.In the present circumstaces remarriage is very very difficult for middle class if not impossible. Middle class thinks about society, what would people say, the person may change or I can change him etc etc. Parents also encourage this type of thinking. It is embedded in the system.

:-D I can't help smile at the "I can change him" scenario. Before I got married - it took me quite a few years to gather the courage to do so - I was very clear I did not want the guy to drink or smoke. My aunt and cousin tried their best to convince me that men need to drink to keep their customers company when they go out to business parties etc. When I stood my ground that I could not see any such compulsion, they tried to tell me you can change him after marriage. So it is not only after marriage, people seem to go into marriage thinking the same. :spin

Courage is one ingredient that is required for everyone. Education has nothing to do with this kind of thinking. Having a job gives financial independence which is very important. But without courage to ask the man to get out or she walking away and fight a legal battle is difficult for them. Reason? No courage. Prepared to suffer. The first step is always difficult. Subsequesnt ones are easier. Of all said and done girls want the comfort zone of family (even if the so called comfort is miserable).

This is what I am realizing. I would have thought education made a difference was because I can see how difficult it would be to consider walking out of a miserable marriage if one was financially dependent. One believes education brings jobs (primary fallacy in my thinking - we are all seeing so many educated, unemployed people) and with that would come financial independence which (second mistake in my thinking) would give women courage to leave - BECAUSE they did not need any support from friends, relatives or family.

So, this makes their decision more and more difficult.
In richer class they also do not care for sociey. Having loads of money gives them security and nobody raises a voice against them.

Again, if money could bring security, then why is that middle class women in high flying jobs care for society while rich women don't?

So, bottom line is that girls need courage to make their life worthwhile. Then only things would change. Parents also should give them a support system saying we are there for you always. If they are very old and themselves depending upon others, ill health doesn't permit them sometimes to give help. But as much as possible parents have a big role to give support to the daughter.

Absolutely - I think we need to see that change in society where parents stand by their daughters when they need moral support.
Syamala
Click to expand...

satchitananda · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

Dear Shanvy,

Shanvy said: ↑

Satchi,

Love, Let me tell you very happily education never means intelligence or empowerment, nor illiteracy means dumb. Something i so want people to realise. when i say this around my close circle they look at me differently. i believe education is about being strong enough to tackle a situation well, being bold enough to do what is right and the courage to fight for what is yours.

I am beginning to see that now. :-D All along I was trying to equate education (as in qualifications) with the means to financial independence leading to having the courage to fight for what is right and just.

I assume the equation, the dynamics of a relationship be it marriage, be it your parents or in-laws or come to think of it our own kids plays a pivotal role.

there is a old saying "thanga oosinnalum kannla kuttina vallikkum" even if it is a golden needle, it pains equally when it pierces the eye. so many of us tend to accept the -ves, or we tend to be more magnanimous than Sri krishna who only gave a 100 pardons to shishupala. what could be the reason,I always wonder, are we really that kind hearted and forgiving by nature, are we social animals who become depedent emotionally that we tend to think of some of our close people as the strengths rather than being able to look at them as they are.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I don't believe for a moment that human beings are kind and forgiving - that needs a lot of effort to inculcate in oneself, especially the forgiving bit. It is a more of social needs and emotional dependence.

We believe society is too harsh on people, but tend to forget that we are also part of the society, and change starts with the change from inside us. Easy said, but very difficult to apply. That first step is the most difficult one for anybody, more so if there are innocent lives inter-wined. The first step needs a lot of support, encouragement and risk taking capacity. Research shows that most of us are conservative in our risk taking abilities. maybe that is also one of the factors.

Absolutely, and the more one has, the more one fears the risk of losing it - no matter whether it is good or bad.

we are people who have been told marriage is a wonderful institution and the belief in the institution is ingrained in us for so long.. there is that small grain of hope that makes people hang on to it??

..... maybe that might hold true for relationships where there is some modicum of trust, care and attachment to each other. For some reason I see these bonds falling apart in many cases and marriage turning into a legal bond, an "institution that prepares one for another one". It is something that everyone does - getting married - something, everyone has to do just to be part of the mainstream.

For example.A and b are two strangers,(very wealthy, well educated) united by marriage. 3 months down the lane they feel incompatible, and what do they do..they try to adjust, understand, and then if there is more complexity, the parents are roped in, then the counsellors. nobody goes in for a divorce or separation unless it is necessary.

Certainly, and one would hope they would not.

There is more to the institution of marriage than what we tend to portray or want to see..there is that inner lying strength of emotional bonding that happens..we are in a jet-set world and want fast track results, but still give a lot of lee-way to make it work. do you think it has something to do with the society, the parents, or the money spent on the marriage, or is it peer pressure. i would love to believe there is an invisible something that makes us want to try a little more before dropping it..

I would love to believe that, but somehow I find it hard to do so. I genuinely feel that in cases where a dead marriage (I am not referring to day to day problems) is kept going, the motivating force is social pressure, no matter from which quarters it stems.

I believe, empowering your children with the belief, that you respect their wishes, their decisions, and will stand by them, without interfering too much is a healthy way to make them believe in themselves which would go a long way. many a times, the child does not learn about the available choices, or the choices are done by the parents, that as he/she sometimes don't really analyze them. teaching them that Family is important but so is SELF. sacrificing/crucifying the SELF in the name of any relationship is not necessary, because I believe as parents the father and the mother are two tracks that enable the individual (child) to be on track and reach his/her destination smoothly.

Very well said.

Sometimes empowerment comes from the moment of realisation that ENOUGH is Enough, when everything else ceases to matter than the self-set priorities be it the children, be it self.

And that is when one realizes that no consequence could possibly be worse than what one is already living through.

P.S. Change is happening, but do you really believe that all the divorces, walk-out are for real worthy reasons. there are times i really think (when i hear of reasons for separation) "OMG! seriously, for such a silly reason" and then i reprimand myself "S, what looks silly for you as the outsider could be a break/make reason for the couple involved"

True, it is very hard to decide what makes a couple break up. For all one knows, they might not even be sharing the complete reason because they don't want to wash dirty linen in public or they might not want their own weaknesses to be exposed. So one has to accept that, given how difficult it is emotionally to break up, it is highly unlikely that someone would get divorced for totally flippant reasons.

(jag is absolutely right. no two couples are the same though we want to believe they could be..) and there are times when i wish i could influence the thoughts subtly " please walk out, enough is enough, there is not much reason here to hang on" but then you step aside and wait,without interfering knowing that the person involved needs to understand that and ask for support..

Amen to that. No matter what our convictions and how well-intentioned our wishes for others, the ultimate decision has to be theirs and only theirs, because it will be they who will be living with the consequences of their actions.

Click to expand...

satchitananda · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

Viswamitra said: ↑

Dear Satchi,

I am sorry for posting another response here. JAG and Shanvy brought up some very good points that made me think a little bit more. Besides social pressure, concern for parents, welfare of children, etc., there is some personal feeling to give it a try as much as possible. One who abuses sometimes reconcile quickly to make the institution of marriage work. The one who is being abused gives a long rope before making a firm step. May be they make the first effort to make it work by fixing the issue within the marriage. If that fails then only they think about separation. Even in Western world where separation is not uncommon, I know many are reluctant to walk away from the marriage. Even infidelity is pardoned very easily. Somehow, I feel some are influenced by the deep religious sentiments while others don't want to be part of a failed marriage. They probably consider that as a great intellectual challenge in case of elite families. Their ego might be deeply hurt that they were not able to make a marriage work. I am only guessing all these reasons as it is difficult to read the minds of couple who are not leading a healthy married life.

Speaking of social pressure, it is rather painful to watch programs like "Kalyanamalai" where the bridegrooms parents or siblings request for brides that are adjusting to the needs of the bridegroom's family. My question is why the adjustment is expected only from women and not from men? When the bride's parents or siblings request for bridegroom, they request for someone who would take very good care of the bride. In this situation, we consider the men to be the care taker and women to be the adjuster. Where is the equality? In the current generation, both men and women work and why one should be the caretaker and the other be one that adjusts to the needs of the husband? Why can't both play an equal role? These kind of social pressures should be completely eliminated.

Viswa
Click to expand...

Dear Viswamitra,

It is really nice when a topic becomes the subject for a healthy discussion between individuals and an exchange of thought processes. Isn't this what makes us grow intellectually and as persons?

As for social inequalities and eliminating them, I am not so sure it is going to happen very smoothly without a struggle. No one wants to change a convenient status quo except those who are not happy with that state of affairs - generally speaking the underdogs. No one is going to give them their rights on a platter. Every change in society (be it the right to vote, the right to education, the right to enter temples ...... ) has necessarily been achieved only through a lot of struggle and struggle is never comfortable for anyone - the victimizers or the victims. Even the Satyagraha which was non-violent was not easy after all.

satchitananda · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

kelly1966 said: ↑

Satchi.. dear.. this is "ghar Ghar ki Kahaani'.. it surpasses all classes/ religions and nations..
Kerman
Click to expand...

Very true Kelly. I only feel very sad when people, for whatever reasons, are not willing to or not able to get out of their unhappy situations.

satchitananda · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

Mindian said: ↑

hey sats,

as always well written on a topic that gets us all agitated. But what everyone has said here makes so much sense.I agree with Shan that it has NOTHING to do with education.Self worth and confidence is what matters and parents play a huge role in developing this in their kids.I also agree with Balajee and Viswa sir about social pressure. it is the middle class that always thinks " what will people say".
anyway kudos to your maid for having the guts to come out of the relationship that gave her no happiness.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks Mindi. As for my maid, her husband has been delivered home by her brothers. So he is still around. I do hope she will be able to keep him in her place. I worry for her safety if this cove is gadding around with other women. I do my best to keep her aware of various stuff. Then the rest is up to her.

kkrish · Dec 27, 2013

Re: Education = Empowrment, Illiteracy = Vulnerability? Think again!

Hi Sats
I was thinking of the biblical story of the prodigal son. Giving chances to the person who commits mistakes.
We always do that, even hoard-core criminals sometimes. A second chance at life.
Perhaps that is the discerning power the lady in question has.

Forgiveness is universal.

I agree with JAG. We are not privy to the lady's environment and family situation in totality.
All said, society still plays a major role in our lives. She must have thought about the impact to her children as they grow up, the taboos they may/will face from their peers and relatives. The ill treatment meted out by family. Who knows.

This applies not only to the lady in question but to all women and men who have unhappy marriages, who just don't give up and quit.

I think the lady's education, whatever she has had, has given her the power to not just think of short term solution but also think and analyze the long-term impact of her actions.
Perhaps she has given her husband a second chance with certain conditions.

I agree with Shan's explanation on the institution of marriage.