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Dont ever argue!

Discussion in 'Cheeniya's Senile Ramblings' started by Cheeniya, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. Cheeniya

    Cheeniya Super Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    I am never tired of repeating this story. If you have heard it before, skip it and pass to the next part.

    It’s about a Sales Manager of a well-known ceramic factory who was on a sales campaign in Srilanka. He visited several well-known hotels in Colombo and succeeded in concluding his big deals with them. His final destination was the prestigious Taj Samudra. His talks with the Hotel’s Purchase Manager were very cordial and the hotel agreed to place a substantial order for a huge supply of teacups and what have you.

    As they were waiting for the contract papers to be got ready, the Hotel Manager ordered for tea. In due time the gleaming trays arrived with piping hot tea and mouth watering cookies. The Sales Manager took one look at the teacups and commented that the round handles were not in vogue any more as they did not provide a strong grip. He opined that oval handles were any day better. An inevitable argument ensued between him and the Purchase Manager of the hotel. After what seemed an eternity, the Purchase Manager conceded reluctantly that the oval handles did have their merit. He then went ahead and cancelled the order he was about to place with the Sales Manager of the ceramic factory!

    Arguments are the most counter productive pastime a human being can indulge in. We are told that the ability to smile is a very special characteristic of humans. We may add arguing too in that category except that smiling wins us friends and arguing takes them away. The rift created by an argument can be temporary or lifelong. When I was in my eighth standard in the Hindu High School in Chennai, I had two classmates named Muthukumar and Chandrasekar. Both were lively chaps and great friends too. Those days we used to have two classes a week called ‘Craft classes’. The craft master used to thrust a wad of cotton in our hands and asked us to spin yarn out of it using a hand-held device called ‘Thakli’.

    One day, Muthu remarked that craft classes were a sheer waste of time and a big bore too. He wondered how such an activity as spinning yarn out of cotton was going to help any student pursue his goals in life. Chandru, who was a priest’s son, took serious exception to Muthu’s statement. His father used to spin yarn with a Thakli to make ‘Poonal’ (sacred thread) for sale to his customers. Chandru, without mentioning his father, retorted that any activity could provide a livelihood for an enterprising man. This blew up into a big argument with students taking sides. Muthu had the majority supporting him and this made Chandru even more caustic! At the end of it, the two best friends parted swearing never to see each other’s face again. And believe me when Muthu passed away three years later by drowning off Marina, everyone was there to mourn his death except Chandru.

    It is the basic nature of a man (or woman?) to expect that whatever he says is accepted. In a private one to one conversation, a discord or disagreement may not go out of hand but in a gathering or a group, it may generate ill humour with the people around taking sides. It soon grows into an argument and the more heated it gets, the more destructive it becomes. Nothing hurts a man’s ego more than when he finds himself at the losing end of an argument.

    A loser in argument has several telltale signs. His decibel level increases, his hands develop tremor, his speech becomes incoherent, he tends to forget the issue that is being argued out and moves on to the persons involved and finally starts uttering inanities! Among uneducated people, arguments are often settled with physical strength and may even result in death. How often we read in newspapers that drunken brawls among close friends ending in stabbing each other?

    It is an irony of life that such a destructive human activity usually arises out of non-issues. There is nothing that is sought to be gained in an argument except the satisfaction of our ego but the price that we pay for the same can be hefty. If we go through the bitter arguments that we may have had in our lives at various stages with our friends, siblings, parents, colleagues and strangers, we would see that they were all on a very inconsequential matter but they robbed our happiness for long stretches of time.

    No one in his right mind would argue, particularly when he is about to clinch a big business deal, on the shape of a cup’s handle but when such an argument ensues, he fights it out as if his whole life depends on it unmindful of the disastrous consequences. Psychologists say that the tendency to argue at the drop of a hat is a sign of a feeling of insecurity. Supremely confident persons never indulge in vain arguments. Every one wants to win an argument even if it is a trivial one to establish that he is a cut above the rest. But unfortunately in that process, he only succeeds in showing himself in a poorer colour NO ONE WARMS TO AN ARGUMENTATIVE PERSON.

    Let us do some introspection about what we have lost in different stages of our life through such unproductive arguments and if they were necessary at all. In future, if you ever feel an urge to argue, do it with yourself!
     
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  2. Manjureddy

    Manjureddy Gold IL'ite

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    Dear Cheeniyasri
    Yes .
    Very true.
    Of course.
    I agree.
    You are 100% correct.
    I concur.
    :exactly:

    regards
    manjula
     
  3. Abha

    Abha Bronze IL'ite

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    Hi Cheeniya Sir

    Very truly said that the arguments are always inconsequential, but still we argue. I agree with you that many times nothing good has come out of an argument. It just leaves you bitter.

    I was really touched by reading this article, thinking of stupid arguments I have had with people in my family and that has always hurt me or them... but i think this is a matter of temprament of the person too, some people can sit quietly whereas others have to speak up and be vocal about what is disturbing them, or probably making other people understand something.
    I agree, arguing in the middle of a business deal is totally inconsequential and stupid, but in other situation, to put you point forward and giving someone a piece of mind is very important...

    I would say argue or i would say a refined word for arguing, have a discussion:-D , and in a freindly manner so that you put your thoughts across and dont leave the discussion on a bitter note that you cannot speak to the person again or you can never see them again...

    ~Abha
     
  4. Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Sri,

    I am an "obedient friend" of you as well. So I do not want to start an argument that you have given the example of an oft-quoted story. I do not have the heart to lose your friendship by arguing with you.

    I have always wondered how good you are in the art of "spinning yarn" ( in tamil, reel vidarathu) with just a seemigly inconsequential incident or an everyday happening in real life. Now you have let the cat out of the bag that you learnt it as a "craft" in school and so have obviously perfected it.

    Very often arguments are pointless and just by shouting our opinions, we can't change people's perception of us.
    Again argument between spouses is unavoidable. But when you argue with someone you love, you always end up feeling guilty and needy at the same time. You try to convince yourself that the person you hurt deserved it. Worse, both want eachother's affection but are unable either to admit that you do or to accept it. Very often your guilt makes you feel pretty unlovable !
    When we argue, we never resolve anything but push ourselves and the others to the point of frustration.
    We are often at our worst, leave alone never being in our best behaviour when we argue. We also feel guilty for being out of control on the spur of the moment.
    Over the years, I have learnt to allow room for disagreement. I savour the difference between myself & others & do not contest it. My victory is in being me.
    With my friends, my favourite quote is " let us not argue, but agree to disagree".
    Love,
    Chithra.
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    sindmani and mikku like this.
  5. Tamildownunder

    Tamildownunder Bronze IL'ite

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    Dear Cheeniya,

    What you have said is very true and recently I discovered this that getting into arguments is futile however strong your convictions maybe and you only lose friends here in this IL. But, as a scientist I know the whole scientific process is based on arguments and therefore I would say as long as the arguments are done objectively and not taken personally arguments can be healthy and lead to positive conclusions like the many interesting debates and Patti Manrams.

    Arguments with egoistic people can be dangerous. I remember one funny incident in this. In BARC, I had a colleague who was bent on arguing against anything that I was saying. Unfortunately, he was part of our tea company and one day a topic of discussion started and as usual he vehemently argued against me. Later, when I was talking about something else with another friend of the tea company, he came rushing towards us and told my friend, ' Wahetever he is saying is wrong and it is like this only'. He had assumed that myself and the other friend were continuing the topic from the tea table. I turned to him and said, ' I am sorry, I am telling the same thing to our friend here what you were telling. Now, you can argue the other way'. He left the place immediately without uttering a word.

    Regards,

    TDU
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2007
  6. sowminivibu

    sowminivibu Silver IL'ite

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    hi cheeniya sir,

    gr8 to c this topic...arguements....well i think everyone thinks tht it is their birth right to argue for whatever they feel is right...whenever i argue for sumthing the statement frm my mum is....sowmi..just put urself in the other person shoes....this way we will learn to stop arguing and also start analysing the problem or situation frm a better angle.....and also sumtimes though we might b correct in whatever we say,but still arguing with the other person or shouting at them does not drive home the point..so the best solution i have cum to is...either not talk till i calm down or if they r very close to me...just tell them tht let me take sum time to think and walk frm tht place....when i ccalm myself down i wud think abt it in a btr way and express to them my feelings also in a much more understandable way...

    arguements as pointed deftly dun gain freinds but only BITTER ENEMIES !!!

    lov
    sowmi
     
  7. Cheeniya

    Cheeniya Super Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Sowmini
    You are absolutely fantastic there and yours is a very practical approach! This is what my mentor taught me when I joined State Bank in 1965 as a Probationary Officer.
    He told me that there might be occasions when I might be getting some 'stinkers' from Head Office trying to blame me for no fault of mine. He advised me not to reply such letters in the heat of the moment when my tempers would be running very high. He told me to put such letters away for a week and only when I felt totally calm and composed, to take them up for replying. He said that my replies would be well composed, rationalistic and dignified that might even put the Head Office to shame! I follow this advice till date.
    I never get into an argument in the heat of the moment but just walk away with a smile and state my position when we are in a more cordial atmosphere. Just as you do! Aint you my brilliant girl Sowmini!
    Sri
     
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  8. meenaprakash

    meenaprakash Silver IL'ite

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    Hello Cheeniya,

    I beg to differ in the sense that generalization that arguement is bad is not correct. Many times it becomes necessary.

    What you have said might be true as far as issues related to unconnected and outside matters are concerned.
    Let's say, someone comments I am a lousy cook when I know I put my heart and soul to get dishes done to perfection !!
    Should I just smile and not argue ? That amounts to conceding after the fact.

    Let's take another scenario. When I come to know my best friend is getting into some deal which will leave her hurt at the end (as outsiders one could easily see the writing on the wall than those involved), should I argue with her not to do it, or smile and let it go ??

    What I am trying to say is argument depends on :
    1. With whom you are doing it . Is that person reasonable and sensible. Is that person someone close to your heart that you will have to argue or feel the guilt later.
    2. The subject : Trivial things could be let gone with a smile.
    Unless asked to comment better keep quiet. If one has to offer comments it is wise to add in the beginning that it is your opinion only.
    3. Place : In a business meeting it might be necessary to put your point through. Keeping quiet might just be cheating.
    With your spouse, again keeping quiet might turn out to be disastrous.

    I could go on, but I have to run to kitchen.

    Summary : Good and Bad are relative terms.
    Necessity demands their usage.

    Regards
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. Tamildownunder

    Tamildownunder Bronze IL'ite

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    Dear Cheeniya,

    Ofcourse my earlier posts in this thread are missing after IL went off air last time. I had posted some jokes on argument. I am repeating them for the sake of those who might have missed it.

    Joke 1: There are three arguments to show that Jesus might have a been woman:

    1. He fed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food.
    2. He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just didn't get it.
    3. And even when he was dead, he had to get up because there was more work to do.

    Joke No.2: Argument over who enjoys sex more:

    A man and a woman were having drinks, getting to know one another and started bantering back and forth about male / female issues.

    They talked about who was better in certain sports, who were the better entertainers, etc.

    The flirting continued for more than an hour when the topic of sex came up. So they got into an argument about who enjoyed sex more.

    The man said, "Men obviously enjoy sex more than women. Why do you think we're so obsessed with getting laid?" He then went on for several hours arguing his point, even going so far as to ask other men in the bar for their opinions.

    The woman listened quietly until the man was finished making his point. Confident in the strength of his argument, the man awaited her response.

    "That doesn't prove anything," the woman countered. "Think about this - When your ear itches and you put your little finger in it and wiggle it around, then pull it out, which feels better - your ear or your finger?

    Joke No.3: Argument between a couple:

    A couple drove several miles down a country road, not saying a word. An earlier discussion had led to an argument, and neither wanted to concede their position.

    As they passed a barnyard of mules and pigs, the wife sarcastically asked, "Relatives of yours?"

    "Yep," the husband replied, "In-laws."

    btw, I saw a new thread by you on premonitions and I had even posted a response. This was after the site was restored yesterday. But, I find the thread totally missing. Am I having hallucinations or some refraction has been done by the moderators?

    Regards,

    TDU
     
  10. Cheeniya

    Cheeniya Super Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Meena
    I rest my case with merely stating that the proof of the pudding is in eating and not arguing about it!:)
    Sri
     

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