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Destiny - Is It Inviolable?

Discussion in 'Snippets of Life (Non-Fiction)' started by Thyagarajan, Nov 21, 2022.

  1. hrastro

    hrastro Finest Post Winner

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    @Thyagarajan ji, I accept what you say about examples and about proofs of people getting moksha - but if we go back and read our śāstrās, itihāsas and puraṇas - it is littered with examples of dharmic living, the natural way of living.
    You can see how mahatmas reached moksha by living in Dharma.

    This is the trouble with sanskrit words being directly translated to other languages.
    Dharma is NOT religion!
    Dharma is the way to live life in accordance to natural law of being, where your every breath is harmonious with the universe and its constituents.
    If you want to translate religion to Indian languages - you could think panth or path - religions are just the methods you use to connect with higher beings. Religions is created by human beings. So, what is right for one may not be right for the other.

    Dharma is the natural order of life, religions are the way people use to reach the state of Dharma.

    In Dharma there is only ONE right way. But, it is a bit confusing for normal mortals like me, so a sadguru is important. A sadguru (or clarity) will come when our mind is clear. So it is important to remove vices, do namasankeertana and service without ego and practice a life without sin...

    True this!
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
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  2. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan Finest Post Winner

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    I agree here.
     
  3. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan Finest Post Winner

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  4. Srama

    Srama IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Thyagarajan Sir,

    A late entrant here and perhaps nothing much to add. Decided to share my two cents anyways. What we call as destiny are perhaps the lessons we choose to learn before we are born. And the unfulfilled lessons/wishes transfer to our next birth.



    I agree by what Thiruvalluvar says- that our current birth is an echo of previous births - destiny. Butif we remember that our current birth will be an echo for our future births, we will be able to exercise freewill and do course correction. I see this as a beautiful dance between destiny and freewill. How amazing is that. My grandmother used to say that we have no control over our time of birth and death - rest all we can somewhat exercise some amount of free will. She always emphasized that prayers/positive thoughts will help us dodge that rock coming our way irrespective of belief in god or not. A very learned person who is a father figure to me once told me and I have never forgotten that destiny and freewill are like the lines on our palms. While one palm defines destiny, the other palm is the free will - that journey and how we make it pleasant or not towards that destiny.

    I also agree with what JS ma'm says -
    Even though it sounds complicated, I for one take heart in knowing that while I walk towards my destiny, I can choose my path. And then my master Richard Bach says "“You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it, however.”

    As for the historical figures you quote, my understanding is destiny functions at many levels like life itself - while we work on our individual destinies/freewill, those figures bring with them the collective destiny. I don't know if I am making sense.

    Like V sir @Viswamitra and @hrastro have said, our continued attachment to our actions/fruits of actions will keep us in the loop. Take freewill now - knowing that we have some amount of control will give us other karmas that we need to carry over, same with completing giving saying it is our karma! Karma whether positive or negative is a burden. Destiny or freewill will continue to create karma unless we choose the turning inward path and develop a sense of surrender and detachment not only to our actions but to the fruits of actions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
  5. RatnaMalliswari

    RatnaMalliswari Gold IL'ite

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    Hello @Thyagarajan Sir,Very interesting post, Everyone have their own belief in life making,what i understood in 30years of life is:
    Every soul has a memory which record the activities he /she does in their own life,i believe that we are the creator of our destiny,i would like add few points of my belief.Here question arises, what does then God do,God is the creator of all creatures in this universe, creator of this universe decides what creatures to be born and in which form,i believe we must have done some good merits to be born like human creatures, definitely i will be always thankful to God for this.After his decision ,it all left to soul to search for his/her life with whom all the journey will be for his/her life.Every creature soul travel to search for further life, ultimately the travel end in mother womb.The actual journey start from womb it grows in a new costume after 9months of process it comes out to see the new world.In this process time soul prepare its own mind set and promise itself that it won't do all mistakes that was made in past life.Thats why when we see babies they are very pure innocent lovable,and we often compare or relate to be like a child.But after coming out from womb,the child goes to several stages from days baby, infant,toodler, teenage, adult,middle age ,old age.In this traverse of life,our mind set change i can say lot of fluctuations, confusions.Only human has that power to change mindset as it's gift of almighty to change their mindset by words of wisdom.Life go even though we plan it or not,based on the merits and demerits of previous and present life.But to correct ourselves we need to hold the hands of God and his teachings,then we can get rid off all demerits of previous life and we can move further in our life.Again life happening is all upon our believes.The demerits of past life are the limitations to our present life,they are not disadvantage,they can be overcome with wisdom.
    The clearance of demerits and enjoying merits itself is the new life.All matters is the right mindset creates our destiny.We often wait for results of any task, enjoying to see performing task we make us to go our destiny.
    @Thyagarajan sir this very vast topic,i really enjoyed reading as well as reply to your post.
    Regards
    Ratna
     
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  6. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan Finest Post Winner

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    Thanks to sister @Srama for your thought provoking feedback.

    THAT is simply superb and a sound extension to my statement. True let us amend and align our business in present life so that it paves way for future better life or at least less miserable life. But do we have a future life here on Earth or elsewhere? A million $ question! Millions of jews died - millions of men died in Iran -Iraq & vietnam and Ukraine war. None ofthem could exercise their freewill. Are all those souls have returned to earth in human and other forms to struggle more!

    True. But then i wonder - Praying group in pilgrimage either in bus or ascending/descending from/ to hill temple met with accidents and perished. Why there prayer did end in shortening their life? It was will power at their old age that they attempted climbing up or down or undertook such pilgrimage in harsh weather....

    Super. This reminds me a palmist cum astrologer friend. From him i heard it first that rays on left palm reveals one’s ancestral connect and the rays on right palm indicates future ie marriage, children, education, finance, displacement and the pitfalls & dangers. Cheiro’s preface in his books on palmistry and Numerology beautifully describes accurately how he had predicted the dangers ( read destiny) and deaths of numerous celebrities evidencing the role of destiny in bringing around the death of persons he had predicted. Due caution borne out of cheiro’s warnings - read predictions- those celebrities despite their will power encountered tragic end.

    I winder why Drithrashtra could not exercise his free will. Destiny waited to punish him after his several births. Fifty births before as a hunter he threw burning net on a nest atop a tree. Hundred fledglings died in nest and the two parent birds blinded in fire. why destiny waited to punish him over his 50 births when he accumulated enough karmas to become a blind king and could not see his hundred sons ever living or dying. Destiny Is prewritten and powerful.
    Thanks & regards.
     
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  7. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan Finest Post Winner

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    I enjoyed reading your feed back here. It set me to anew thinking.

    When Babies in process - at what stage the soul enters the body of the baby? How do we know that soul carries memories of mistakes committed in the previous birth ( inhuman or other form).

    In the case of twins or triplets or even quadruplets, how do we know several souls attempted to occupy a body or baby in process? Would there be a mix-up of memories of several souls .....

    Despite free will an innocent lady’s modesty harmed by a group of juveniles in a moving truck in middle of night? What is dharma or adharma here? Entire action is negative karma and the lady delivered a child later and child is destined to suffer a different kind of karma - suffering as consequences of its previous karma carried forward?

    How the child could have avoided its birth which is incapable of exercising free will? Would soul of this baby carry any encrypted message of ignoble birth?
    Thanks &regards.
     
  8. RatnaMalliswari

    RatnaMalliswari Gold IL'ite

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    Thank you sir for your reply.
    Soul never die,it's soul which enters into womb and delivered in new costume.soul carries both merits and demerits.
    I strongly believe soul have memory that's the reason we are told it's purva janama sukuratham for instance any talent or behaviour we aquire from previous life.
    We get connect to each other with runnabandh,we forget relation after death,till debt is clear we will be in connection with them.Every soul is unique, though twins triplets born in difference of few minutes they mind set differs,they look similar because it's God creation,they are connected through their soul.
    God is creator of life,and we are the creator of our destiny.
    Man proposes,God Disposes-I feel when we think beyond what we are made for,may be in that aspect God disposes,but when we strongly connect or attract and struggle for it,even God changes his mind and gives us.
    That's what I said sir lack of wisdom people misbehave with others,bad karma is suffering.Many girls and women are suffering,i can't say it's because of their karma of their past life, or karma of a person who attacked them has to face in next life.This point is even big question to me.I am still in research of certain things,i shared here my point of view as i always keen to know what's life before we born and what's life after death.
    Life is avoidable i don't think so,it's continues process if we clear with our accounts then next life will be with more vip treatment ha ha ha.
    I wrote this because I read many articles,books even watched some spiritual programs.
    Regards
    Ratna
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
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  9. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra Finest Post Winner

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    Do you consider such sufferings as predetermined destiny or do you consider such act as an execution of freewill against dharma by misjudged juveniles? Lack of exercise of freewill according to dharma is not the same as inability to exercise free will due to destiny. That is why the society has a system of judgment and punishment under the law which analysis the motive behind the crime.

    This statment appears to imply that Dritharashtra led an ideal and dharmic life but suffered his destiny. Did he not aspire to give the kingdom to his son by depriving his brother's children? Did he support burning his brother's wife and children alive in Varanavadham? Did he take action when his son gave poison to his brother's son? Did he not support his son's scheme to deviously snatch away the kingdom of his brother's son? Did he not allow his daughter-in-law humiliated in his court? Did he not send his brother's children to the forest? He allowed his desire and attachment to overcome his discrimination to adhere to Dharma. He had multiple opportunities to adhere to Dharma but wilfully shied away from adhering to Dharma. It is lack of discrimination and not inability to exercise freewill, in my view. Had he performed dharmic actions as a King, perhaps, God's grace would have helped him to wipe out some of his karma. Yes. His blindness was caused by his Karma but his freewill existed for him to use it wisely and I don't agree that he was unable to use his freewill due to destiny.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2022
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  10. Srama

    Srama IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Thyagarajan sir,

    I am assuming you are expecting another response with your thoughts/questions. We seem to apply karma to only negative things in life. We tend to forget the joyful moments and the blessings that come our way. As much as we may not be able to change our destiny entirely (for this birth), by living life in a manner that is enriching to us and others, we will be creating something like a savings bank account which will come handy when we need it, if not this time in the future. I think this karma concept is only to help us have proper checks and balances so that we live the life to the fullest. None of us, no matter how much we like to think so do not know what happens after we pass on.

    But sir, who has escaped death? And who would pray thinking we will live forever or die a certain way - it may be possible but we would never know. That is a mystery.
    And like I said earlier there is individual karma and collective karma....perhaps that makes all these things happen. I don't know. Having lost many people in my life, I can tell you that it is the living that suffer - so it is the karma of the living also no?

    I have been reading "Illusions" by Richard Bach for god knows, may be a millionth time - that book gives me more insights than anything else and I continue to learn. One of the quotes I have been spending sometime thinking about is - “Remember where you came from, where you’re going, and why you created the mess you got yourself into in the first place. You're going to die a horrible death, remember. It's all good training, and you'll enjoy it more if you keep the facts in mind. Take your dying with some seriousness, however. Laughing on the way to your execution is not generally understood by less-advanced life-forms, and they'll call you crazy.” I personally love the way he says " laughing your way" - that is the journey and we can make it better for ourselves.

    Perhaps those fifty births were a chance for him to redeem and he never took it - perhaps never exercised freewill :) And then there is that avatar of krishna also involved and the lessons of Mahabharatha to be taught...We can only speculate and come to conclusions that please us.

    When talking about karma, I often think of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and his relation to food. There are a couple of versions. I am sure you know them but here are the links -

    Ramakrishna Paramhansa Interest in food - Saburi : You are in Sai World.

    Indian Stories For All: Ramakrishna's Love for Food

    As far as war and other tragedies, good and evil etc haven't we read about them be it in ramayana/mahabharatha or elsewhere? We accept them either because we were not there then (or don't remember them from our previous births :biggrin: ) or put it down to god taking an avatar :biggrin:. A friend of mine says that it is the collective good of even a handful of people that defines/helps with the good for world. So we must keep doing those things irrespective of god/no god for the collective karma of the world!

    I think I have spoken too much :flushed: But I have been thinking about since the other thread - it is @shravs3 thread?
     

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