Chatter & Banter - Politics In India

Discussion in 'News & Politics' started by Viswamitra, Sep 30, 2018.

  1. Amica

    Amica IL Hall of Fame

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    I'll be following this thread hoping to keep up with India-related news.

    My thanks to @Rihana for suggesting it, @Viswamitra for starting it and to all ILites who post here.
    .
     
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  2. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    You will be posting also or only reading like in America politics thread? Nations want to know. : )
     
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  3. Amica

    Amica IL Hall of Fame

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    I'm grateful when I find the time to read. Now you want me to post also?! :eek:
    .
     
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  4. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Yes, yes, big yes. Would settle for lesser Likes. For the greater reading good. : )

    =====
    Ok @Amica toodles for now. I see Viswa is here. 'nuf of banter... : ) mein chali mein chali.. I am going, I am going.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
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  5. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    If politics in India sits on a Palanquin, we need at least 4 to carry it. If you sit on the sideline, it would become politics itself. Welcome @Amica.
     
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  6. Maayon

    Maayon Bronze IL'ite

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    In current status the devotees who visit the Ayappa temple follow celibacy and avoid earthly pleasures during the period of Vratham of 40 days under the guidance of Guruswami before they take Irrumudi and start their tedious journey to Sabarimala which include journey via train, bus or other modes. The last leg of the journey from foothill to temple via forest and rocky terrain is always by foot. ( 2 routes - chinapathai (short) and periyapathai (long)). Most of the new joiners/devotees take the short route as guided by Guruswami and as years pass they will be allowed to take the long route. One should note that today's transport facilities were not available in yesteryears and it may take months to complete the journey.

    In the macro view, the physical needs to complete the journey played a major role in the custom of male-only status.

    Those 40 days and journey were always a group event. Vratham is practiced to keep your mind focused and prepare the body for the journey. Vratham do not end after the completion of one journey. It is like a continuous training in military or police service where every year or in certain time gap activities are repeated to bring the discipline in one's mind and body. A devotee can become Guruswami only after completing 18 such journies and with permission and approval from Guru. This ensures that the devotee is well trained and attained the capability to guide the future generation. Even after completing 18 years, some may not attain the essential qualities such as humbleness, truthiness, leadership skills, etc. In short, considering the facilities available decades or centuries ago it is a long training process for men to become a better human.

    Above said, one can argue and debate for the same training to be provided to women. we can yes immediately but given a rational and logical thinking, we can agree on a few things
    1. Women and men are not same physically or mentally. I can hear the voice -are they not equal and need to be treated equal. I heard it loud and clear - they are equal and need to be treated at par. They are equal but not same.
    2. Responsibilities that each carry is different -then and now. Child care is better attributed to women than men. Once again, I heard loud- yes child care is better provided by women than men. Even legally laws and courts allow and emphasis on handing over the child care to mom rather than dad in case of equal capacities in both.
    3. In a family with infants or kids in single digit age, the absence of mom is felt heavily than dad. She is the soft power and core of family tree. May be that is the reason ancestors thought not to disturb women for such training. They might have believed that experience gained my men will be shared to women once he returns from journey thus the knowledge is shared.
    4. Even sometimes men may succumb to difficulties during the journey. I see it as a calculated risk taken compared to reward attached. It is wiser to lose muscle power of family than central nervous system.
    After all these talks, I wonder why one should fight to take a hard lesson in tough terrain.
    - Let men be men learning lessons after hardship
    - I am sure women will have their privileged areas such as temples, mosques, etc. Women only Byblos mosque in Lebanon. Pushkar temple in Rajasthan - I am not Rajasthani hence to be acknowledged by local people.
    - Koothandavar temple - A special temple dedicated only to transgender in Tamilnadu

    Why break a tradition when it does not harm the society. Sabarimala does not differentiate people based on caste, creed or money. The tradition in Sabarimala is not applicable to all Hindu or Ayappa temple. If someone is eager to worship Ayappa they can do so at other location or following the Sabarimala tradition. Different people with different ways of life, traditions, and rituals live in harmony inside Bharat. It is one of the identity and uniqueness of our Motherland. (why not fatherland as in Germany). By trying to make it even we may lose the diversity.

    I say to me -If I don't like and it does not disturb the society or me - do not try to change -let it continue.

    Zero harm - whether its a Geyser or Quick soil both are unique - let us better appreciate and proceed further.
     
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  7. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    To wait to enter the temple (or not) should be her choice. If women preferred to follow the tradition it's their free will to do so but shouldn't be because of "enforced exclusion" imho. Having said that, I also wonder... maybe I had missed but has it been established that women "devotees" had concerns/objections in this regard in the first place? :thinking:
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  8. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    Women generally avoid visiting temples and other holy places during mensuration cycle days but for few exceptional temples maybe, right?

    Given that Ayyappa devotees go through a strict 41 days period of abstinence ritual before visiting the Sabarimala, menstruation cycle days within that 41 days duration makes it for a woman to not be able to complete the ritual. That is why the practice of not allowing women of mensurating age from 10-50 originated I understand.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  9. Laks09

    Laks09 Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    I meant women in the menarche to menopause age range.

    Reg strict 41 days - some men practice that. It’s practically impossible to show up at corporate jobs with uncut hair, nails, untrimmed beards, no shoes, black garb etc. Most of my family wears a mala in the morning, finishes kettu nira immediately and leave directly from there. It’s an adjustment to today’s lifestyle. So yes, things have evolved over time.

    The reason women were excluded isn’t because of the 41 days vritham it’s because the deity is celibate and the presence of these women will trouble him.
     
  10. kaniths

    kaniths IL Hall of Fame

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    I know, it's a pretext I put to make a point later. If we generally avoid going during those days, then we would avoid too on Vritham days if we get (which hasn't "evolved over time" as you say) and naturally the vrithim is broken*.
    Hmm, that's one of the many myths I would say. Anyways, by what you say at least men can worship once before starting to work in the morning or in the evening or anytime at their convenience, still being on the vrithim while we/many women don't (my point above) when we are in the cycle days, and that's the difference. Celibate or not Aiyyapa is, without the 41-day vrithim being completed devotees don't visit**.
    Any idea... ? I like to know.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018

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