hi I am not trying to justify my stand on being patriotic...because again it will come under scanner. Sorry to say, I have not equated the lives of innocent to terrorists.. I have said value of life of innocents is the same on both sides of the LOC. I talked about the pandits matter, indians were sufferers, but it happened because of the politicians on both sides, not taking the correct move...and here I will not name them, but there is evidence of that in political history and you can read about the stand taken by our then great leader in books written... this murder must have been planned even before she landed in pakistan....and why not sharif being murdered too many questions.... It looks more like a stage was set for drama.... Bhutto would never have changed her stand against india...it is one thing that helps them sustain in the political career...no politician in india, or in pakistan, will want to really close off all these problems...as long as the problem stays, they can point to that for all extra expenses, and other things that happen..... (these are my views....need not be accepted by others....)
Hi All, I was following this thread for some time... Everybody has some valid points.... I am Zero in Politics and dont know anything.... I definitely know the value of Human life... Be it Indira Gandhi / Rajeev Ghandhi / Benazir / Any other Civilian..... The death due to Bomb blast is horrible... It is not acceptable... Today what we are talking about Benazir... Few Years before the Srilankans would have been talking about the same way for Rajeev... So, it never stops.... What is good for some will be bad for others... When I was working I Bahrain... I had the opportunity to meet one guy from Srilanka... He told me that in his village, IPKF, literally laid down around 50-100 srilankans and ran the tanks over them... His family was raped and his whole back side has scars of their beatings... When he was narrating... I couldnt digest it... My Patriatic Blood boiled... But he showed me the facts.... I am dumb found... So.... Let us just focus as a Human being.... Any human being dying that way is bad.... May be I am wrong....
hello they kill they claim with pride that they succeeded to kill more and more shoots benazir was warned before when she escaped? so she knew she was targetted just goes to show what they will ``sacrifice'' to get power....! now the kids go a suffering. a lesson for parents....? do not get a gun as toy it is so engrained in the subconcious mind to aim shoot whoever... indians with the school shootout are slowly learning? to kill....
Benazir is buried and I will put in one last message. We are seeing all kinds of stuff in this thread some of which have nothing to do with the matter at hand. ( If there is a relevant connection I am not able to understand ) Basic question - "Benazir died. Was she good or bad for India ?" History shows she was a terrible person having launched Taliban and insurgency in Kashmir in 1990. This can be proven with links to respected sources of public information. I am not even going to mention her personal life ( involvement in own brother's deaths etc) Knowing that she was bad for India what should we do as rational Indians ? I have three choices - please select what is right for you : Choice 1 : Everybody is good and everybody is bad. Anything can happen in this world. I am worried about whole world. Who knows what who did when and where. Though Benazir has killed many of my fellow Indians, I feel bad for her death. In fact, I condemn her death. What about the death of my own Indian people ? Who bothers.....people get killed all over the world. Choice 2 : I admire Benazir. She went to Harvard and Oxford. She is so glamorous. I don't care for politics. All that matters is that I admire this "bold woman" Some people are saying she is bad for India. I dont have patience or interest to analyse anything. Everything else can go to hell. Choice 3 : I know Benazir was bad for India. She started the terrorism monster and today the monster claimed her life. Those who live by the sword die by it. I wont celebrate anyone's death - at the same time I wont waste any sympathy on a person like herr. My sympathy is better spent on my countrymen who are victims of terrorism. For me India comes first - not Pakistan or Sri Lanka or Bhutan etc.
Benazir death news….it is getting colder over there & it is getting hotter over here. Well, opinion always differs & I agree with everybody’s view.:iagree The point is some are subjective & few are objective. When I mean subjective, people who look at person/things in a humanitarian aspect, they don’t analyze things deeply, whether they deserve one’s wishes or prayers. Whereas, the people who are objective, their mind rules the heart, they look at an issue in a different angle. To me, both are right. In our society, we have different kinds of people with different school of thoughts. The question is how tolerant we are with other person’s opinion. Some people care & respect while others ignore. Being subjective, I look up her as ‘a woman of substance’ but at the same time by being objective, I feel death is not a punishment to her. It is an escape! Born with a silver spoon, she died on the spot without any pain. Her death infact has caused agony & pain to her family, friends & supporters! While her nation is weeping she is sleeping…there is no loss or gain to her, it is again the public, which is disturbed. Anyhow, the year is ebbing…lets welcome the new year with a big hope & in return let it shower happiness & peace to all.
Just a Reminder Hi All, I do agree very strongly with the following line - One of the hallmarks of our IL site is its civility of discussions - not just what opinions we express, but how we express it. We might agree to disagree on how we choose to view an assassination or a killing (or for that matter, any other important world event), but that should not be cause enough for one to sling mud over the other person. Or to question their intent (in this particular case patriotism for one's motherland). If somebody expresses their sadness at 20 odd lives being snuffed away in a moment or 20 odd bodies being blown away..from being live human beings, they are now mangled remains...it is perfectly understandable. What is also understandable is the feeling of anguish many of you have expressed for the victims of terrorism in India (including the Kashmiri Hindus). What is not understandable is why should the first emotion be equated to being unpatriotic! Has anyone said anything about not being touched/saddened by the plight of Kashmiri Hindus or any other persecuted group in India? Does one need to express every other emotion in their heart before being able to express one particular emotion? Please express your opinions as objectively as possible and if ever there is a moment where you are wondering "should I write this", think of whether you would actually talk like this to a person sitting in your living room face to face. Today's the last day of the year and I would like to end this post by toasting all of you :cheers ..here's to enjoyable discussions and debates!! Have a lovely New Year's Eve and a Very, Happy 2008!!! love, Aarushi
Continuing on the opinion that Benazir is the last chance for democracy in pakistan.... democracy in pakistan = Bilawal (a barely 19 year old) as leader of PPP to match that Democracy in india = Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi, Priyanka Gandhi_?? (here i don't remember maneka's son nor her husband's names) Do not even try to think what their Individual contributions to the people were before entering the political arena and being elected by the "Mass"(party chamchas). They are "Groomed" to inherit their thrones and thus face their fates. Funny why none of the non-inherited face the same fate?? (other than LB Sastry) People of Pakistan , have a heart and confidence, better days are just waiting to come...... (same to India and Indians) please wake up and excercise your right to correct the 'wrong' done by these party chamchas. We come from Ancient lands which had withstood much more atrocities than this. Still have heart to say RIP all those that have departed. But reserve your sadness to those that deserve, the innocent bystanders. (let your mind rule your heart for those whom you have no direct acquaintance with). HOUSE OF GRAFT: Tracing the Bhutto Millions -- A special report.; Bhutto Clan Leaves Trail of Corruption - New York Times
Hi Aarushi I did not want to reply but you gave me a compliment so I wanted to respond. I want to thank you for agreeing with me :-D However I do not think you quite understood what I meant. When I said "some of these things have no connection" I meant topics like ( " Indira Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi,Tsunami,Oxford education, air travel, IPKF, Sri Lanka etc etc :biggrin2: In my opinion the tragedy of Kashmiri Pandits ( especially from 1990 - till then Kashmir was manageable ) should be laid squarely at Benazir's door. There are countless sites which show that terrorist violence flared in 1990 aided and abetted by Benazir. No one would object to sadness about innocent bystanders' death. If you notice, till my first post # 15, no one was talking about bystanders. It was all "poor benazir, what a great person, I am so sad at her death, woman of substance etc etc" If someone were talking about innocent bystanders, that would not be unpatriotic. If someone were lamenting the death of a person who killed your countrymen, that would be unpatriotic. If it is still not understandable, try this example - How many Israeli Jews mourned Hitler when he died? I am not sure I understand you :confused2: Here's my basic question - When you show sorrow at the death of a person who caused a massive tragedy for Kashmiris, are you really touched/saddened for Kashmiris? If I walked into a party with my Jewish friends and said "I respect Jewish culture but I was very sad when Nazi war criminals died" - how do you think they would react ? Will they say "Your love for jewish people is different from you love of Nazis" ? The bottomline is many of us are not rational. As Blondie says, many people here act like sheep. If we see one person praise Benazir, we all want to join and sing same tune. ( "oh poor innocent Benazir") Problem is Benazir was neither poor nor innocent. She has the blood of Indians on her hands. Now I understand that everyone may not know about Benazir and her bloodstained deeds. But even after being informed, if one wants to persist with sympathy for her, then is that not a disconnect with reality ? Whether the head or heart is ruling , it should rule with common sense:queen - just my humble opinion. Regarding patriotism etc, the first time patriotism was mentioned in this thread was by Shanvy when he/she said If you are patriotic - then how can you want the genocidal killer of your people to rest in peace ? How is this possible ? Sorry I simply don't understand how this can ever be possible! I want to reiterate that all Indians are my brothers and sisters. If I disagree with someone, it is like a disagreement with my sister or brother. I am not angry or hate anyone. In a family little disagreements are natural. I want to wish you all a Happy New year. Let us leave Benazir and this discussion in 2007. Let us not bring it to 2008. If something happens to Musharraf then we will see :coffee
