Atma is immutable and cannot be destroyed.

Chitvish · Jan 4, 2008

Dear AC,
I am going to give you a new name Atma Chitra !
Now, coming to your first post
When the Atma leaves a body it still does attach itself to another body to take a birth?
No. Only sukshma sariram leaves the body & attaches itself to another body. Atma is like sky, always prevalent. When it is enclosed by a body-mind complex, it enlivens the same.
Again, the good old pot example. After the pot breaks, space just continues. When another pot is made, there is part of the space inside that also.
second post:
Atma is also referred to as soul or spirit for convenience. Please do not equate it with the english meaning. The question of punarjanma does not arise because atma is indestructible. It was there, is there, will be there - hence called anaadi. As we go to the next verses in 2nd chapter, we will understand more & more.
Third post:
Excellent. I personally would equate 4th boy friend with Sthula sariram, 3rd & 2nd with sukshma sariram & 1st with karana sariram.
Thanks for sharing this with us, AC !
Till 2.30 in Gita, we are only going to deal with atma & so clarity is bound to emerge definitely.
I am just writing those posts & as I write, I am understanding better & better !
Love,
Chithra.

Anandchitra · Jan 4, 2008

Dear Chithra
I got confused because of the English meaning.
So there is Atma, Sukshma sariram and Sthoola sariram involved with I.
Will read thru your old posts to get better clarity with reference to these 3.
Thanks for being so patient.

BhargaviChakravarthy · Jan 4, 2008

Dear chitvish,
Just a pot cannot destroy the clay, anatma cannot destroy the atma.I could somehow guess what anatma is.But still could not get the meaning.Can you please tell what anatma is?

I repeat ur words
If there were a pot other than clay, then the clay could establish a relationship with it.

I am trying to grasp the meaning of this statement. Still I am making attempts to read again and again. Like u have written””” But, when a pot is only clay, there can be no relationship between them.’’’’ A pot is made of clay,how come there is no relationship between pot and clay.

But the entire context revels abt atma and a clear picture (though atma is unobjectifiable) of it is understood by me except that i have not catched some words in between.

Thanks in advance

Chitvish · Jan 4, 2008

Dear Bhargavi,
Thanks for joining us here.
Anatma means the body-mind complex that is stula sariram+sukshma sariram. It is "jadam" & needs atma, the chaithanyam to enliven it.
Pot is made of clay - this means pot has come only from clay and it is only an extension of the clay.
We mever say my hand is related to me or my head is related to me because they are parts of me and not related to me. This was what I meant.
Atma topic has just started. So, as we proceed, we will understand it more clearly.
Love,
Chithra.

BhargaviChakravarthy · Jan 4, 2008

Thanks chitvish for ur prompt response.
Love
BC

Chitvish said: ↑

Dear Bhargavi,
Thanks for joining us here.
Anatma means the body-mind complex that is stula sariram+sukshma sariram. It is "jadam" & needs atma, the chaithanyam to enliven it.
Pot is made of clay - this means pot has come only from clay and it is only an extension of the clay.
We mever say my hand is related to me or my head is related to me because they are parts of me and not related to me. This was what I meant.
Atma topic has just started. So, as we proceed, we will understand it more clearly.
Love,
Chithra.
Click to expand...

gayathriar · Jan 4, 2008

Dear C

This time, I am glad that I entered late.

Your lead post made me contemplate and the corollory made me re-think the concept of atma as I had an (mis)understanding that atma is affected by our karma. Being the late FBer that I am, I have had the benefit of reading through the understanding of other friends, their questions and your clarifications. So, I am back at this post after re-reading the Sharira Thrayam and Atma - 1. The cloud seemed to vanish, but now have emerged in form of a new set of questions...

Are Karana Shariram and Atma one and the same or is Atma a layer above that?

Can we say that Atma( feeling of I ) is encapsulated in a Sukshma/Sthula Shariram as long as the Karma of the Sukshma/Sthula shariram requires and when Moksha is attained, there is no longer an association of atma with the Sukshma/Sthula shariram?

Sorry about the list of questions. And many thanks for your thursday posts that really makes me look inside and contemplate...!

-Gayathri.

Chitvish · Jan 4, 2008

Dear Gayathri,
Thankyou for joining us.
Karana sariram is the causal body and not atma. It is made up of the subtlest form of matter where even different energies resolve and become fundamental.The componets of the karana sariram are the physical body and the subtle body, present in an unmanifest, undifferentiated , causal or seed form.The gross and subtle body are in savikalpa form whereas the causal body is nirvikalpa where the differences are not evident.
Atma is original consciousness.
Moksha is attained when all karmas are fructified and jivatma becomes one with paramatma.Till then janmas are taken by sukshma sariram to fructify all prarabdha karmas.
Do not worry, G, the subject being abstract, as we proceed, understanding will emerge.
Love,
Chithra.

Anandchitra · Jan 4, 2008

Dear Chithra
Please can you clarify the following for me:
I would like to know the English equivalent terms since I have so far understood in English and all this while thought Soul as Atma and now realise thats incorrect so I have to relearn the context again.
What are the terms for
Physical Body
Gross and subtle body
and which of the following match the ones above?
Sthula sariram
sukshma sariram
karana sariram
Thanks for your patience.

Chitvish · Jan 5, 2008

Dear AC,
It is possible only to give the nearest english terms in english, because our vedantic terms are unique ! For ex, what is the exact equivalent for "vairagyam" ? the nearest is dispassion or detachment etc; but still they do not convey the exact meaning.
For physical or gross body, it is Stula sariram - what is visible to the eyes.
For sukshma sariram, it is subtle body, not visible.
For karana sariram, it is causal body.
The nearest word for Atma is Consciousness that is, chaithanyam which in turn means, that which enlivens the body.May be the nearest tamil word is UNarvu.
Soul is an english word, meaning spirit also. We talk about soul travelling, resting in peace etc. All those usages do not apply to atma.
Do not bother to translate in english. The very essence of the terms will be lost. Or, it is possible that I have limitations in translation, as well.
Love,
Chithra.