A Fate Worse than Death - Bhagavad Gita Verses 2.33 & 2.34

Discussion in 'Chitvish on Hindu Culture & Vedanta' started by Chitvish, Feb 28, 2008.

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  1. Feb 28, 2008 #11
    Cheeniya

    Cheeniya Super Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Chithra
    <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place>Krishna</st1:place>’s advice to Arjuna about the performance of his duty as a kshatriya has to be understood in the light of what our scriptures say about the karma. It has been very clearly stated in our scriptures that karma can never be the cause of emancipation. That is why the Lord uses the word ‘sin’ while emphasizing the need for performing one’s duty.

    My Guru who conducted my ‘upanayanam’ years back told me that performing Sandhya Vandhanam daily was part of my Karma. Non-performance of this daily ritual would add to my sins but no ‘punya’ would accrue to me if I performed it as prescribed. That is why Adi Sankara repeatedly decried giving more importance to karma than spiritual pursuits. Karma is only the casual sequence in time. Too stern an adherence to Karma will only bind us more and more to the temporal self whereas spiritualism will help us getting freed from the temporal self and getting united with the Eternal which is beyond Time and Cause.

    A kshatriya has to be up in arms against ‘adharma’ and if he doesn’t, he would be sinning. This is what the Lord keeps repeating to Arjuna. In the days of yore, when people were assigned specific tasks according to varnasrama dharma, it was a lot easier to define dereliction of duties according to svadharma but in the modern context when every one is free to choose his profession, the word karma should not be confused with professional duties. Karma today has to be understood in the context of our obligation to the society and to our family.

    This aspect is very clearly brought out in Eckhart’s words: ‘People should think less about what they ought to do and more on what they ought to be. If only their being were good, their works would shine forth brightly. Do not imagine that you can ground your salvation upon actions; it must rest on what you are.”
    Sri
     
    Cheeniya, Feb 28, 2008
    Cheeniya, Feb 28, 2008
    #11
  2. Feb 28, 2008 #12
    Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Sri,
    Thanks for a very beautiful, relevant explanation.
    I loved your words about performing sandhya vandanam.In our lives, we can never neutralise a plus with a minus in karma.
    Yes, adherence to the karma yoga has its limitations & we have to transcend it at some stage & start practising upasana yoga, our introspection becoming more serious.
    Your last paragraph quoting Echkart is very profound.
    Ultimatey, we are likely to be judged by what we are than what we did .
    I realise that I am going more vedanta-oriented (naturally!) in my replies, whereas you bring in a refreshingly different point of view from the "worldly" angle.
    IL ites are bleesed, to have you around, Sri.
    Love,
    Chithra.
     
    Chitvish, Feb 28, 2008
    Chitvish, Feb 28, 2008
    #12
  3. Feb 28, 2008 #13
    Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Sudha,
    Just like the title "There is no room for grief", this is yet another harsh title !

    Please do not just translate
    Arjuna will incur sin if he does not fight !
    Krishna indicates to Arjuna a psychological truth now recognised by the modern world. We read the reports of modern education to the children according to the traits observed in them - this is reported more in Russia. This only surprises us, how much the Hindus of that age had progressed in the fireld of psychology ! By a literal translation, we should not lose out on the nice, subtle beauty of Krishna's words.

    Yes, do mull over - you will really enjoy !
    Love,
    Chithra.



     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2008
    Chitvish, Feb 28, 2008
    Chitvish, Feb 28, 2008
    #13
  4. Feb 28, 2008 #14
    aishu22

    aishu22 Gold IL'ite

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    Dear Chithra,
    Great Topic.I could understand that krishna emphasises on doing the karma more than worrying about the consequences and about the sin that would engulf once done.Per my understanding,I have heard terms like kula dharma - what we are assigned and supposed to do my birth(kulam). For any kshtriya, fighting against adharma is their KD. I suppose for grahasthas(samsari), we are assigned with the Karma of living a livelihood, earn, think about god, help the needy etc..and if at all we dunt do these, may be we will be doing a sin.

    Sri's explanation on karma was simple and self explanatory.

    Thanks Chithra for this enlightening post.
     
    aishu22, Feb 28, 2008
    aishu22, Feb 28, 2008
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  5. Feb 28, 2008 #15
    Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Aishu,
    You have understood it correctly, without complicating irt.
    The argument here is, that if Arjuna cared about dharma, he should not leave the battlefield & if he did leave, he would incur papa. Even assuming, he did not care about his dharma or punya-papa, but cared only for his name & fame, the ill-fame would be worse than death because nobody can live with illegitimate ill-fame. Earning ill-fame is bad, but if it is unearned it is worse than death.
    Thanks, Aishu.
    Love,
    Chithra.
     
    Chitvish, Feb 28, 2008
    Chitvish, Feb 28, 2008
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  6. Feb 28, 2008 #16
    gayathriar

    gayathriar Bronze IL'ite

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    Dear C

    "Sin" is that through which a man strays from the path of evolution - this is an interesting definition of Sin. Krishna's statement is very persuasive. Why do you think Krishna is sympathetic that Arjuna can be weakened by wrong emotionalism - isn't He omniscient???

    Dear Sri - thanks for your supplemental viewpoint. I shall definitely pass on your Guru's preaching regarding Sandhya Vandhanam to my husband who is on and off on the routine.

    -Gayathri.
     
    gayathriar, Feb 28, 2008
    gayathriar, Feb 28, 2008
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  7. Feb 29, 2008 #17
    madhu11

    madhu11 Bronze IL'ite

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    Dear Mrs C,

    wow!! may things are going on my mind now with the posts and replies. It some how seems to be so important this fate now....beginning to think if all this attachments to people and possessions are even worth it. You have to control the mind and the senses right?
     
    madhu11, Feb 29, 2008
    madhu11, Feb 29, 2008
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  8. Feb 29, 2008 #18
    Sriniketan

    Sriniketan IL Hall of Fame

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    Cheeniya Sir,
    Nice to read your explanatory post too, lucky we are.....
    We can remember the good ones only if they are repeated again and again.


    sriniketan
     
    Sriniketan, Feb 29, 2008
    Sriniketan, Feb 29, 2008
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  9. Feb 29, 2008 #19
    Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Gayathri,
    I assume you are asking if Arjuna is omniscent.
    In all our literature virtuous men are portrayed as going through various emotions like us, human beings, so that we can identify better with them.
    Just because Dasaratha listened to his wife's words & sent Rama to the forest, does not mean that Dasaratha was hen-pecked ! The same explanation holds good for Rama asking sita to do agnipravesham.
    I hope it is more clear now.
    Love,
    Chithra.



     
    Chitvish, Feb 29, 2008
    Chitvish, Feb 29, 2008
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  10. Feb 29, 2008 #20
    Chitvish

    Chitvish Moderator IL Hall of Fame

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    Dear Madhu,
    Now don't panic, thinking too deeply !
    We have to go through all attachments in life, but discerningly, if I can say so.Learning to think the right way is aided by reading scriptures - that is what Gita is all about.
    Do not always be lead by the dictates of the heart - learn to use your reasoning as well.
    Love,
    Chithra.



     
    Chitvish, Feb 29, 2008
    Chitvish, Feb 29, 2008
    #20
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