What Is Your Perspective?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by BeautifulSmile, May 19, 2022.

  1. BeautifulSmile

    BeautifulSmile Silver IL'ite

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    I have been in this Organization for 10+years, in the last 2 years had a very good career graph. Got promoted as a team lead for 2, now grown to development manager with 2 teams and 16 reportees. Works closely with around 8 different teams, and a very complex business. My contribution has made drastic improvements, client satisfactory feedback (though I wont directly interact with them but contribute to their work as a manager). Every team I interact with is very happy and received great feedback.

    Whereas the team is really great, lot of energy. Always up for new challenges, automations, optimizations, etc. My role is: I ahve 2 dedicated BAs who take care of business needs, I have great tech on the team to get the work done. But all are directionless. I get into the execution part of this work with great execution methods of distributing work, always suggesting the automations and optimizations. From there they will take it over. All is good so far right?

    Here is what I am super upset about: Today in town hall we had a great presentation about my entire team each and everyone and dedicated slide about me and my work by CEO with written all the feedback he has received from other directors and client. Such an amazing thing to celebrate right? But the team did recognize each other by calling the entire team name except me. A appreciated B C D so on but I am not there. Same B appreciated A, C,D everyone not for name sake they say my name.

    They don't include me because, they think I am not doing anything or because I am their boss dont feel comfortable or they dont see me as one of them? I have received all the appreciations and they do too, they always call out others but not me. But I make sure to call them out everytime I receive soemthing.

    When I talk to them in 1-1, they are happy with what I do no negative feedback. They seems happy. This feeling is runing my great achievements celebrations.

    Everyone thinks I should be very very happy with all these, but I am very very sad everytime I receive these my own teams are not appreciating me.
     
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  2. Rihana

    Rihana Moderator Staff Member IL Hall of Fame

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    As all else is going great, this exclusion must be unintended.

    Maybe the first one to speak, was not sure if it is proper or how to include you in the appreciated list. The rest followed what the first did.

    Another possible reason could be that you work closely with eight teams and it is a very complex business.

    Are there more people who lead teams like you do? Do their teams acknowledge them in town hall type meetings?

    Then there are less pleasant reasons like maybe they resent your career graph. Or don't like reporting to a female boss.

    As all is well otherwise, leave it be. Don't bring this up in 1-1's or well after the exclusion.

    If you do have to bring up the exclusion, use humor and in the moment. The next time you are excluded, raise your hand, big smile and go, "And me...!!!" "Hey guys.. don't forget me..." Don't try this if it is not your style though. : )
     
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  3. nuss

    nuss Platinum IL'ite

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    Many times it's unintentional. Team members probably don't know if they should say something about you.

    I see this with my work as well. All my trainees (whom I directly advise) will thank me in their presentations- "I am grateful for Dr. N for her mentorship...." on these lines). I am also on committees of so many advisees and work closely with them- things like- financial help through paying their assistantship from my grants, troubleshooting experiments, suggesting new direction/experiments/ writing letters of recommendation for awards, and on and on. But in many cases, they will only thank their main advisor and don't think about the peripheral advisor (me!). Sometimes I let it go and others use humor as @Rihana said- "hey, I don't see my name on that list" with a smile.

    I would suggest you bring it up in a more casual setting during a team meeting and say- "you guys totally left me out/ forgot about me...ouch, that hurts" so that they won't continue doing it. Or you can tell people to be inclusive and make sure that they give credit to all when credit is due. Part of being a boss is to help people learn these skills. We expect our trainees/team members to know this basic courtesy but many times they are at loss.
     
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  4. BeautifulSmile

    BeautifulSmile Silver IL'ite

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    I believe I look at my team high and getting their appreciation means a lot to me than CEO, CTO, etc. How stupid I am ,lol. But I need to find my peace to live with it knowing them. May be as you @Rihana said its unintentional and they dont even know I am feeling this way. Or as you said @nuss I may have to teach them this soft skills like no one else feels like me in the future or existing team who are not part of that constant group appreciation. Overall these people are good with great heart and ethics.
     
  5. lakshmi888

    lakshmi888 Silver IL'ite

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    Yes , they don’t include this in the tech field because others would think of it as a boot licking or buttering tactic .. please look into it , if you are not aware of this term ..it’s a very common word.. in fact, HR receives complaints of favoritism often of which HR has to keep a record of every such incident and the actions leading to it because of strict labor laws in the west and potential lawsuits

    in fact, in IT , most senior people like mangers, directors and VPs and CEO ask their juniors to exclude their names in the thank you slides .. it’s a serious matter in the IT world .

    Many also refuse acceptance of even a small box of chocolates on Christmas or Diwalis ( it’s in HR handbook in some organizations to not accept accolades or even small gifts from their reportees ) …. Many desis don’t go through HR handbook when they join an organization in the west .

    like my Caucasian boss ( a very senior leader) in a very famous organization would explicitly tell everyone of his reportees to not even gift a small box of chocolates to him ..he also never gifted anything to any of his seniors.. also there are cameras everywhere in all these companies though some desis don’t take it seriously and would be going around with a small hamper of chocolate, Trying to gift to their boss .


    how I know is because i am old and I have worked for many years in IT in many organizations in many roles including many people manager roles ..

    I also explicitly tell my reportees to exclude my name in thank you slide ( it’s fine to include names of peers or similar role people ) and I tell my reportees to not gift me even a small box of chocolates on Christmas or Diwali.. ..

    In many organizations, manager’a performance is tracked by anonymous 360 degree feedback( which goes to HR also ) and if any reportee feels that any favoritism was going on , they mention it in 360 degree feedback which is not visible to the manager ) and there is a 3 strike rule of HR based on any complaint ( like 3 complaints is 3 strike rule ) and then, even a CEO can’t tell HR to not ask for the resignation of the concerned person ..

    hope you know the case of desi senior VP type person in Googl ( star performer ) in Bay Area ,who was asked by HR to resign and even sunderr could not tell HR to not do so, even though he was a star performer and right hand man of sundarr
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2022
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  6. sociallifein30s

    sociallifein30s Gold IL'ite

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    Well, I would just like to say that we might not forget our bosses, but we might not know to appreciate them. Not many have an "appreciative' relationship with them. She gave a task, I did well, so I need to get appreciated by her. What will I appreciate my boss for ? for assigning a task?
    So, maybe I would take an initiative and appreciate my bosses for their support whenever I get recognized. In one of the meetings , I said " thanks to xyz for being there. I wouldnt have been able to sail through the storms without xyz support. " Maybe that will give them the direction on how to even appreciate the boss, specially if they are junior/mid level
     
  7. lakshmi888

    lakshmi888 Silver IL'ite

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    Sail the storm without Mr X or Ms X’s support ( where X is the boss) is a very wrong language in corporate world in the west …this kind of statement is reserved for partner or husband or SIgnificant other and not the boss as he is not your romantic interest …others might think there is some situation ( hope you get the hint ) going on between you and the boss if you use such lines to thank the boss here in the west

    please use only professional vocabulary and not dreamy or novel or movie like lines like ‘sail the storm ‘ when dealing with office colleagues or a boss

    many big organizations HR handbook here in the west tell people to use ‘strict ‘ professional vocabulary at all times in all office communications ( verbal or written) with everyone from a new intern to the CEO


    If my reportee used such a line to thank me,I would be embarrassed and have him or her go through the HR handbook on using strict professional vocabulary at all times.. this I would communicate through email with HR in cc and HR may keep mandatory training sessions for that reportee
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2022
  8. sociallifein30s

    sociallifein30s Gold IL'ite

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    well, keeping the idea of romance aside, Ive not even heard a "situation" thing with "sail the storm" phrase at least.
    It just means getting over difficult times.
    Also, I said , " I wouldnt have been able to sail through the storms without xyz support." means without their support, it would have been difficult to fight the battles.
    I am not sure of where in the West this is offensive, but in the USA, it was normal. Infact USA is known for it extensive use of idiomatic language. Use something equivalent to your workplace. but the point is to ensure you politely recognize your boss's support to you so your team can understand about appreciating your boss.
    Give the team also the confidence that you appreciate their intent to appreciate you.
     
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  9. lakshmi888

    lakshmi888 Silver IL'ite

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    Everyone knows the meaning of the idiom sail the storm or weathering the storm - it is used for a person who is your emotional Anchor and that is not your BOSS .,

    In US, these kind of idioms are not professional language as per HR handbook .,

    I have done MBA from US and we are taught not to use such idioms in business communication

    I have spent enough years in US . office communication is not done how Jane Austen’s lead heroine tells her lover ——-that I couldn’t sail the storm without your support

    many desis use such idioms in business communication and display lack of common business etiquette and end up with HR complaint with mandatory training sessions that affects their promotion as it’s a red flag in their professional history

    ..and many organizations now are moving to 3 strike rule , which is , 3 behavioral type complaints to HR and you are asked to resign and not even a CEO can challenge it, even if you were a star performer ..

    look into my previous post about desi VP at Googl who was a star performer and asked to resign by HR because of a behavioral issue and that too a complaint by a non desi intern ( wrong language with any iota of Jane Austen novel like idiom reserved for romantic Or emotional anchor comes under behavioral complaints/ issue ) ..

    so even an intern’s complaint against VP is Taken very seriously in the west because of some future potential lawsuit

    Your boss must be one of those desis who uses such idioms so he didn’t send you to mandatory HR training session .. so be glad but you might not get lucky with a different boss or some different peer who might report your lack of business communication etiquette to HR

    and who told you US is known for using idioms .. that is far from the truth .,


    here every communication is very short and to the point and even lovers don’t use such idioms ( you would know if you would have dated here ) …

    and not Even my non desi friends who are non desis and with whom I shared a house for many years ( like living together 24/7) know about such idioms ..

    I am aware of such old fashioned idioms because I used to read Jane Austen a lot in my younger days and i am old
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2022
  10. sociallifein30s

    sociallifein30s Gold IL'ite

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    lot of assumptions here sister. When someone says something, give them a bit of credibility that they might know things and have experienced things before writing them down.
    But you seem to be pretty rigid about your views and jumping to HR handbook. Maybe thats why your team doesnt appreciate you. Try some introspection. Might help!
    As for desis, and my boss might have been desi, and US /idioms etc, lets just leave it at that.
    Jane Austen is a classic writer. British writer. The love is different there and a lot of feminism which was way ahead of her time. Maybe you meant mills&boon.
    But please dont reply to this. never mind.
     

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