Do The Farm Laws Benefit The Farmers?

Discussion in 'News & Politics' started by Rihana, Dec 8, 2020.

  1. nemesis

    nemesis Platinum IL'ite

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    Governments are apathetic at best on any ordinary day. I would recommend 'everybody loves a good drought' book if you haven't come across it. It's upto the farmer to see the writing on the wall and move on to other professions or to keep suffering.

    It's my (semi) retired lifestyle than as a career. Plus as i said, land values keep going up and can't find any other option that can beat inflation like farmlands in a growing economy.
     
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  2. Minion

    Minion Platinum IL'ite

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    If you want real change then fix the real problem "Governments are apathetic at best "
     
  3. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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    :hello:My 2more cents:
    India is now both wheat and rice surplus. India's MSP is about 40% higher than world wheat prices, and depending upon rice category, upto 20% higher.

    So any higher yield is not going to increase income of farmers because there is no domestic demand.

    Costlier than world market, we can't export them either.

    Same is the case with sugar.

    If government increases MSP further, that will simply be transfer of wealth from one section of population (non-farmer) to farmers with surplus. Most of the non-farmer population is poorer than farmers with surplus.

    So it will be immoral and economically destructive as all government forced transfer of wealths are.

    So, how can farmers have increased incomes? How can India survive this confiscatory practice called Minimum Support Prices?

    Almost all other crops are more labour intensive than wheat, rice, and sugarcane. Labour has gone to MNREGA and Rs 2 kg wheat/rice. So farmers are not switching to other crops. If they switch to fruits, again, labour will be a problem, and prices will crash in seasons of the respective fruits as artificial surplus will be created.

    Because India has no system of cold storage chains which can preserve fruits beyond the season.

    Another way of avoiding seasonal glut of any crop, not just fruits, is to convert it into another form, that is, process it into something else. Like oranges into juice cans that can survive the whole year.
    For that, again, we need food processing industries.
    In fact if we could have similarly dairy produce processing industry, we can shift huge manpower and areas from wheat/rice/sugarcane to dairying.

    So why do we not have cold storage chains, food processing industry, dairy produce processing industry?
    Two reasons, interlinked.
    First, we do not have cold storage chains, food processing industry, dairy produce processing industry because of, can you guess it?

    Well, the answer is the same old: the 150 clearances, permissions, licenses, NOCs, and over 55 government inspectors, and once you have got them all and bribed the 55 inspectors, you discover the 151st permission and the 56th inspector who comes to lock your working plant. If you somehow buy him also, there are NGTs, EPAs, SPCB, CPCB, all the high courts, the Supreme Court. And of course do not forget the local rangdar.
    But if you get supreme lucky, and fly under the radar, still there is the second cause.
    Second cause is that there is nobody to buy your products. Yes, the folks surviving on MNREGA and Rs 2 kg rice can not afford your juice can.
    And they have MNREGA and Rs 2 kg rice because there is no industry to give them higher paying jobs!!!

    And there are no industries to give them those higher paying jobs because, well, answer is the same as above: the 150 clearances, permissions, licenses, NOCs, and over 55 government inspectors, and once you have got them all and bribed the 55 inspectors, you discover the 151st permission and the 56th inspector who comes to lock your working plant. If you somehow buy him also, there are NGTs, EPAs, SPCB, CPCB, all the high courts, the Supreme Court. And of course do not forget the local rangdar.........
    So, to increase farmers' income, you need industrialisation of India, and for that to happen you need to set the entrepreneur free and give him the rule of law.

    Everything else is hogwash, stupidity, timepass, some new stratagem of the permanent looting elite of India.

    And if this obvious truth is not obvious to those who control the destiny of us 135 crore human beings, then there can be only one reason that they are brain dead stupid.
     
  4. nemesis

    nemesis Platinum IL'ite

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    I have already given an idea of what's wrong with this country - the Bharat to be specific. Journalists and dinner time 'boxed' debate solutions work best to polarize people - they keep pitching one party against another and find a momentary cause and effect and a blame game and that's it; please don't fall for this pointless mental exercise.

    --

    Here's a brief summary of it all:

    1)Bare survival rate MSP prices of govt keeps farmer afloat. But this can't go on, for inflation is catching up and India is shining while Bharat isn't. Not doing anything has a price; salaries of everyone goes up vis-a-vis inflation except the farmer and he would be at wit's end - like, a family of 4 surviving on less than 10k per month when even an ATM watchman will get 12k by 2025.

    2)Rural employee guarantee scheme of congress govt is the rural vote bank and now it is very clear that this scheme is on the detriment of the farmer - it made labor costs go up. And BJP after losing in 2004 won't scrape this policy for aforementioned vote bank reasons. Using the scheme to assist farmers only results in rampant corruption - local govt employees decide who gets to work in which farm and usually large farmer benefits and small farmer left high and dry. So it's a bottomless pit now, taking in all the tax money for the survival of the govt. Whatever this country can do to the farmer, it's like feeding popcorn to the elephant, such is the large number of (unproductive) farmers in this country.

    3)To increase MSP would mean higher costs for govt, more grains in the storage and farmers will continue to grow rice and wheat which are at a surplus. We can't export it either - rice going primarily through NRIs consumption while other countries produce the same wheat and cereals at much higher efficiency(How? Lesser farmers, more industrial farming, more productivity). US is waiting to dump it's surplus to India, a key point in World trade talks. What will we do with the surplus? Also, if govt purchases higher, then food prices will also go up (dal at 150-200 per kg Vs the usual 100) and this is same like the onion story. We (consumers ) are our (farmer) own enemy isn't it.

    And any attempt to reform agriculture - which means pulling the excess employment there to industry and forcing a reversal of the fragmentation of farmlands - which happened when every farmer made 5-12 kids and land got divided - so that collective tillage and tech input can happen - is met with excess sentimental protests and gathering. Corporate/contract farming is the way forward and everything else fails. Socialism works in Nordic only after they developed well and arrested population growth; Indian socialism only made us 140 crore now (vs 50 crore something in 1950).

    What the Chaiwalla did when touring the world was to attract investment to make India a manufacturing powerhouse; all the glam and sham to portray a new India (which met with whatsapp forwards of 'modi touring in tax payer money') and now to use the pandemic to the advantage to shift manufacturing from China to here; the Indian elephant is slow in everything compared to the Chinese dragon. The large bureaucracy and the 'chalta hai' attitude of the average Indian worker being the domestic hurdles to it.

    Whether he will do it, while pandering to his hindu vote bank through statues and cow worship to stay in power, and to placate the rising urban class(from leaving the country), while also ensuring a livelihood for the farmers and laborers leaving to urban - will decide what will happen to India in this decade.
     

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  5. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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    :hello:one would be at a loss for words for this kind of agitation. But affluent when they go on "road ruko" and similar agitations they know what they want but impoverished small farmers not really know what they want out of this agitation .
    The entire atmosphere shown from time to time in media gives a picture of mela and I suppose general public of the Nation wonder whether to sympathise or empathise for them.
    Farmer's Strike... Some facts
    At the Farmer's agitation site, all type of men & machinerie jbs, including Chapati, Poori making machines in bulk quantities are deployed like in a War site, to feed the farmers day night.

    As per various media reports tonnes of food stuff are available with or assured from sources to continue the strike even beyond a year...

    It is much pride for we Indians to know that our Farmers are such an economically powerful Farmers... So it is now confirmed that our Farmers are so much wealthy and self reliant that they can sit on Strike for several months at a stretch without doing any farming or farming related jobs.

    During Shahinbaug strike also the participants were provided with food and shelter round the clock without any fund shortage.

    But during the Covid lock down period thousands of migrant labourers and their families ambled hundreds of kilometers on rough road and hitch hike unworthy road vehicles.

    There were no one from these facilitators seen anywhere to feed them, a one time food to these poor migrants and indigent.

    Now Kejriwal is arranging shelter and Food to the striking farmers, though he could not provide such facilities to the poor labourers.

    Even an higher rank IT professional cannot afford to live with out a month's salary. Also in India about 95 % of farmres are very poor who are not able to live their life without farming even for a month. And here in strike venues, five star menu foods including Badaam, Pista, Kismis, Cashew nuts, Butter, Milk etc are serving round the clock.

    To cater for next six months requirement, food stuffs are stocked up there.

    Thousands of Expensive overcoats to fight the winter cold are stocked up at the venue, besides thousands of Tractors and trailers including tipper trucks lined up the roads in vicinity. expensive cars are also sighted all of which presents common man, the feeling that this is not a "Farmer's Strike"; at best it can be deemed to be a war against an elected government.


    Here is another twist of fate, an irony of fate in India. A tiny % FARMER'S lobby is driving 99.99% of poor farmers to the wall.

    Strange Bharat - strange politicking.

    After giving written assurances, farmers should accept and end the agitation.

    This is blackmail tactics by a motivated group.

    The way of functioning of the agitation itself reveals the country that, this is not a "movement" of Farmers.

    Why can't other leaders leave Farmers and Govt. alone.
     
  6. Thyagarajan

    Thyagarajan IL Hall of Fame

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    :hello: Some more pov gathered as under:

    Bowing to high commands of congress, Captain Amrinder Singh managed the passing of the bill by the Legislative Assembly of Punjab to dilute the impact of Central Laws.

    But this looks ultra vires of State as centrally appointed governor would ascent the bill.

    Therefore, Punjab government declared the whole of the Punjab State as a market place so that it can be treated as a Mandi in terms of APMC act and any purchase anywhere require Mandi Tax.

    There are however several ways and means available with the state Government which are as:

    The state government can reduce Mandi Tax levied inside APMCs so that they can compete with open market operations.But as per existing APMC law, the Punjab government is also the biggest beneficiary of the APMC system in the country as they are receiving Mandi Tax in the range of 4000 to 5000 crore per annum.Besides the state government intermediaries / commission agent are also the big beneficiariesMany politicians and farmer leaders are heading the APMCs who are also the big beneficiaries of the APMC system in Punjab.


    If rice & wheat tuns surplus and farmers suffer loss, they should switch to cash crops ie crop rotation. It may even save water for future lest it may face huge water shortage in later years.

    It is reported the number of cancer patients alarmingly rise as a sequel to over utilisation of chemical fertilisers. Switching to cash crops might reduce use of chemicals. This would take care of excessive production of wheat and rice. It could also reduce quantum of import of edible oil/seeds saving substantial FE.


    If Both Central and State Governments promote alternative crops in the state preferably cash crops, it will be more beneficial to one & all. Necessary technical inputs from central RD can be availed or and alternatively centre could consider granting incentive for those who avail.
     
  7. Minion

    Minion Platinum IL'ite

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    Yes Indian farmers are sinking in wealth

    Farmers' suicides in India - Wikipedia

    And Indian Immigrant workers are the best marathon runners

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Agathinai

    Agathinai Gold IL'ite

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  9. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    There are a few comparable economies with a high population, a need for food security, and a dominant population engaged in farming.

    1) China - A big agricultural country endowed with rich agricultural resources, has a long history of farming and the tradition of intensive cultivation as well as a huge rural population. Since 1978, China has carried out step by step the policy of reform and opening up, bringing along a quickened pace in agricultural reform and development. China has succeeded in producing one-fourth of the world's grain and feeding one-fifth of the world's population with less than 10 percent of world arable land, which is a great achievement in pursuit of food and nutrition security. The Chinese government focused on 7 major areas namely a) supply of farm produce, b) agricultural and rural industrial structure, c) agricultural material and technology development, d) agricultural production and operation, e) agricultural return and farmer's income, f) utilization of agricultural resources and ecological conservation and g) rural infrastructure and public service. The government fixed a target for farm produce with regular quality and safety inspection at 96%. The government facilitated it through proper irrigation, fertilizer and other farming equipment supply, etc. They fixed the target to reach a 0.53 coefficient on the effective use of water for agricultural irrigation, total horsepower of agricultural machineries to reach 1 billion kW with mechanization to cover 60% of plowing, planting, and harvesting work. They fixed rural labor with practical know-how to amount to 13 million and science and technology to contribute 55% of agricultural output during the period 2011-2015. They set up robust development of specialized farmer's cooperatives and steady development of moderate scale operations in various forms. The government also fixed a target of 5% annual growth in agricultural return and farmer's income with some engaged in rural labor in off-farm sector with per capita income of rural residents to reach an annual average growth rate of over 7%. The government also focused on ecological conservation incorporating biogas digesters installed in more than 50% of suitable rural households. Rural infrastructure such as tap water, electricity, and gas with modern highways were all implemented. Science and technology, education, culture, health, and sports in rural areas were promoted with a proper rural social security system incorporated.

    2) Indonesia - The country is prone to natural disasters such as earthquakes, tsunami, floods, droughts, landslides, and volcanic eruptions. In addition, rural communities face various other hazards affecting agricultural livelihoods such as crop and animal diseases and pest infections. Therefore, the government's priority #1 was disaster risk reduction and improved resilience to climate change. The second priority was sustainable resource management for crops, livestock, forestry and fisheries, the third priority was improved agricultural productivity, value chain development and competitiveness and priority #4 was to strengthen the enabling policy, legal and infrastructure environment to improve livelihood, food security and nutrition.

    The common thread in both these countries was to enhance the revenue stream of small farmers especially the ones with smaller agricultural lands, improve infrastructure, enhance the value chain and achieve food security.

    The Western countries have rich farmers with large-scale farming efforts with mostly automated infrastructure for plowing, fertilizer application, harvesting, etc. Most of these farmers have direct contracts to buy their produces and recently we have heard about Potatoes farmed in Idaho were all dumped as the contractors canceled their contracts due to COVID-19. Prime Minister Narendra Modi should look at comparable countries instead of the Western model as the situation of the farmers in India are different when compared to the western countries. Bringing the corporate into agricultural distribution only results in sharing the razor-thin margin with another middleman. Farmers in some states are spoiled due to the states using the cancelation of loans as a tool to obtain votes from the farmers. It is high time to look at farming as an industry with development effort made at a micro-level. There are enough financial institutions set up in India to handle this at the micro-level.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  10. Minion

    Minion Platinum IL'ite

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    China's per capita income is $18,170 (2018), Indonesia per capita income $12,670 (2018) and India per capita income is only $7,680 (2018), all the countries have progressively invested in Infrastructure, food processing industries and logistics, taking that idea and trying to implement in India is not going to work. This is another hocus pocus policy like the demonstration, all the hype saying that we will get rid of black money from India and make India prosperous.
     
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