If God Exists, Why Isn't It Obvious?

Discussion in 'Education & Personal Growth' started by Gauri03, Jul 27, 2016.

Where do your stand on the belief spectrum?

  1. Devout believer

  2. Believer with some doubts

  3. Agnostic (don't know)

  4. Leaning towards atheism

  5. Atheist

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. blessings1010

    blessings1010 Gold IL'ite

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    I think you answered the question in your question itself. Yes an enabler.
     
  2. satchitananda

    satchitananda IL Hall of Fame

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    Two points that I want to convey my thoughts about:

    1. Why is there so much evil if God exists? Why does (S)He not stop it instead of allowing it to go on?

    If the evil in the world should be evidence for the absence of a God, then how can we ignore all the beauty and perfection, the complete orchestration of natural phenomena? Should that not indicate the presence of an Intelligence beyond our's? Let one part of our body break down and our doctors are not able to put Humpty Dumpty together again! Think of that perfection that our bodies and all other creations are.

    2. Onus of proof on believers.

    Yes, both claims - that God exists and that God doesn't - are beliefs. If those who say that God exists need to support their statement, the same is true for those who say that God does not exist. Saying that there is a lot of evil around, so there cannot be any God is circumstantial evidence, just the way that saying God exists on the basis of my own arguments is. Fact of the matter is we do not know.

    As for science being a measure of the truth, science still has a very long way to go. Theories about various things are turned upside down every few years, negating 'discoveries' made earlier. Science is still very limited. Gravity existed way before it was proved or discovered. The earth was round even before it was proved to be so. There might come a day when science is able to prove 'God', no matter how one defines the word. Besides, one can prove the existence of something. The absence of something cannot really be proved.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
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  3. Pickle

    Pickle Silver IL'ite

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    Evil : I don't think anyone understood my view points or answered appropriately. Still appreciate all the responses.

    Proof / Belief : Please look up Atheism definition, why it's not a belief and why they claim the burden of proof lies with believers.

    I like to quote Richard Dawkins. He claims in 'The God Delusion' that faith is evil because it does not require justification and does not tolerate argument.

    True. Nothing more from my end to add. I rest my case here. Thank you for the discussions.
     
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  4. Pickle

    Pickle Silver IL'ite

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    Some things I could instantly think of... Absence of oxygen can be proved, absence of nothing is everything and absence of everything is nothing, then there are void, vacum, even absence of thoughts too.
     
  5. sindmani

    sindmani Platinum IL'ite

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    I believe that love is God. According to me God does not have any form. He is in a person who empathizes others. Who feels hurt when others are hurt.
     
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  6. Poetlatha

    Poetlatha Platinum IL'ite

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    Very profound topic. I have been a strong believer from my childhood days until now. Only difference is from being religious I have become spiritual.

    My definition of religion : rules, rituals, regulations, ceremonies, chanting, singing, reciting, etc to be followed in certain specific way as it has been laid. Going to temple, conducting daily or routine poojas at home etc. But these things are only to create the atmosphere and channelize and strengthen one in the disciplined path of a believer, Which also helps to move to the next level that is becoming truly spiritual,is my humble opinion.

    Spiritual : is feeling, something very personal, as per me no rules regulations to be followed, it's in your mind, heart and soul, everyone is equal, loving one and all, no discrimination, feeling of Oneness! Feeling of emptiness, nothingness, space, floating in space, merging in that space and Experiencing Sat Chit Ananda ! Then there is no sorrow, no sadness, no good or evil. But we see all these things happen in our life and around us...karma, dharma, sometimes things are beyond our comprehension and conviction...bottom line one has to feel...like love has no reason, understanding and believing in God has no rhyme or reason but should be felt like love.

    I enjoyed each and everyone's views, that I read so far, and will continue to read and share my views too,if any to contribute.Many people seem to be widely read in the subject matter. I have not read deeply about the philosophers and scientists mentioned here. As @jskls and one or two of you have mentioned have experienced some unexplainable things, which confirms there is a super power which can be called God and as universes and galaxies exist and is created there is a creator. Liked the video of Rajnikanth and @kaniths comic relief pic since the topic was heavy...! Very interesting topic, we can't say one is right and the other is not but it is how every individual comprehends, experiences,and is convinced by his/her notion. In modern world we need proof for everything, but not necessary. Life is full of opposites, so good and bad does exist. I'm not dead to say about the life after death, I feel Hell and Heaven both are here in Earth. God is beyond all these polarities. And as Shakespeare said, the world is a stage and we are all actors. To fit in the role we have to role play. life is like a movie, but a movie is over within three hour, our life does not end so shortly, we still feel the pain and that hurts and we start to question about God, like the Greek philosopher did...! It's an never ending discussion. Though I'm spiritual and have evaluated the various layers of thoughtful queries, many of them are unanswered, can't digest certain factors, and God, Maya, Karma, Dharma, previous birth actions and it's consequences, why can't things happen now all kinds of things come into my mind and I wonder .....! It's like a cycle...goes on...

    I apologize for being unable to mention each and everyone's name here in the discussion, but I thank you all for sharing your views, and expanding my knowledge in the same. Great thoughts and feedbacks everyone ...Thanks Gauri for starting this thread!
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
  7. Viswamitra

    Viswamitra IL Hall of Fame

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    I read a book written by Kabbalist Rav Berg with a title, "Nano Technology Of Mind Over Matter". This book was recommended highly by my son and I read it in 2011. In this book, the author explains the existence in a simple way that reconciles the science with spiritual teachings Of Kabbalah.

    My understanding of what is written in this book is given below and please forgive me, if it doesn't agree with your views or even if it is not a perfect understanding of this author.

    Initially, only light existed. This light had an urge to give this light and hence it replicated itself into another vessel to receive the light. Unfortunately, the vessel created by the light resisted the light as it had the same quality to give. That is when big bang happened. This is when the light realized the need to split the vessel into three elements: a) one to give only, b) one to receive only and c) one to receive to give.

    These three elements are explained by science as Proton, Electron and Neutron. According Kabbalah's teachings, they are known as a) Soul, b) Ego and c) Free will. When we dig into the scriptures of the Hindu philosophy, these three elements are known as Satwic, Tamosic and Rajasic qualities. Science agrees that atom never ceases to exist and it has these three elements.

    These components in the Atom constitute molecules, cells and city of billion cells and therefore, all of these three qualities exist in every form that exist. According to Kabbalah's teachings, not every human being is expected to be Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Mahavir, Zoarastra, Krishna, etc. Depending on the dominance of one of the three qualities, each group of cells keep performing actions of giving, receiving and receiving to give. When the doership or exercise of freewill and ego are eliminated, what remains is the act of giving which is known as quality of the light which is immortal.

    Therefore, if ego is dominant, a human being may only look to receive and could commit act of crime to receive anything. This explains existence of evil in this world. If free will is dominant, the human continue to think as an independent entity to receive and give. This explains how human can think and act independently without knowing about the light. He could be spiritual or non-believer or believer but may not recognize the existence of light. If only the quality of soul exists in a human being, it replicates the quality of the light and the need to exist independently ceases to exist making a human immortal.

    Viswa
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
  8. Poetlatha

    Poetlatha Platinum IL'ite

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    @Viswamitra : Awesome response Viswa Sir! I need to read that book! Only. Now I started reading Vivekachudamani! Thanks to you Sir. I think this explanation is very convincing to me because, I see a spark of light when I meditate, even in sleep. And also believe that when a soul leaves the body it's mostly like A spark of light. Thanks Sir for the enlightening response as always.
     
  9. Sairindhri

    Sairindhri Gold IL'ite

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    Fantastic response. Can't get any better explanation. I have it read it twice and as Latha told it's an awesome response and thanks for it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
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  10. GoogleGlass

    GoogleGlass IL Hall of Fame

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    Like poles repel; Unlike poles attract.

    This is true with magnets as their quality is defined. In the humans there is no defined quality - it is a variable and it is perceived to be good ideally. Variable to the variable, it depends on the culture/society/century it belongs to. Even in the ISO the quality process is defined and not the quality of the product itself, in general.

    The issue with us is that we are selective like poles and selective unlike poles when we deal with ourselves or anyone else. A combo of n possibilities. So there can be no defined quality, preferences, likes, dislikes, etc.

    Hence the belief/non-belief system also is similar in nature - the % belief/non-belief would vary obviously. It is purely an individual's choice based on experience and knowledge and the influence of the external forces like the people we move with.

    As long as we don't try forcing our views on others and take control of them or try proving that we are more intelligent than them, all is well. Believe don't believe be it what may, if you can be happy with out making some one unhappy then remain so. Good for all.
     

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